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LGD
Sep 25, 2004

I just got into pool 3 and unlocked the ability to use tokens in the shop

am I correct in assuming I should windmill slam 1k points into buying Sera?

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LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Push El Burrito posted:

Would purging Ebony Maw's ongoing allow him to be played after turn 3?

normally no because that part of the card is not an ongoing effect, but Sauron removes all abilities from Ongoing cards (which Ebony Maw is)

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Snazzy Frocks posted:

i'm still in pool 2 but i keep getting matched against this guy with a wong that he always has on turn 4

collection level is only part of what goes into determining matchups and there's no segregation by pool access, so end of pool 2/start of pool 3 can have some real "well gently caress me I guess" moments against people who opened well (or tanked MMR)

but wong matches up poorly vs. any interaction whatsoever, so if you keep seeing it just slot Cosmo or Enchantress

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Youremother posted:

I am playing a lot and getting plenty of boosters, it's credits that are the bottleneck for me. I get like what, 300 creds a day from dailies? Most of my cards are at rare level and it takes eight CL to get a new card, so I get a new card every two days or so where I'm at and that's only going to slow down the closer I get to Pool 3.

it's 500 (3x 50 from normal missions + 3x 100 from hard missions + 50 free credits from store) minimum, which equates to 10 CL (a bit more once you factor-in the discounted uncommon upgrades, but 50/lvl is what you can count on) plus more from weeklies/if you spend gold to get extra missions

it definitely slows down quite a bit once you get to pool 3+ (and progression won't necessarily be steady on a day-to-day basis depending on how levels/boosters/etc. are falling out) but overall you'll make steady progress if you keep playing, and the nature of the game makes each acquisition significant (though obviously you're a lot happier when you pull a deck-defining card vs. something like Quake)

LGD fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Feb 21, 2023

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Snazzy Frocks posted:

pool 1 and 2 are good primers but ultimately gets very stale very quickly. what bothers me is i have barely a scratch into the s3 list and if i were to hit 600 then im going to definitely be out gunned if not completely out skilled as well. i'm still trying to sort out these decks im seeing now and where matchmaking has stuck me in these unprecedented times but i can be certain ive never ever seen the portraits these guys have so they been around a while

I mean there is matchmaking MMR so even if they've been around for a while you've probably got a reasonable shot skill-wise

that won't stop you from occasionally getting blown the gently caress out, but that happens to those people too (most of whom also aren't anywhere near having a complete collection/etc.), and while your odds of making infinite or w/e may suffer for a while, pools 1-2 do give you the tools to do reasonably well even if you have abominable initial luck with your pool 3 pulls (which you may not)

imo the main thing is to adjust your outlook a bit, focusing more or learning archetypes/play patterns and snap/retreat timing rather than just trying to grind cubes

I mean I'm only mid 800s so take that all with a grain of salt, but I really haven't found the transition too painful/scary at all

LGD fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Feb 21, 2023

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

GarudaPrime posted:

Shuri should just give the next card played 6-8 power depending on how good you want to make her in relation to other high stat 4 drops,

note that version is a very different card (and spicy patriot include): instead of comboing with high power drops you'd want to use it in conjunction with a late Mr. Sinister/Brood for +12-24 power (on top of their base power + whatever else you played that turn)

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Snackmar posted:

ah geez, should I pin and save up for this? that's gonna take a while



my understanding is that Sauron is very good in Shuri Zero but mostly only there and isn't actually necessary so probably not worth pinning unless you've got everything else you need for it and like playing that deck

given the periodic downgrades I think it's likely that only the forever-series-5 cards that enable their own archetypes (Thanos, Galactus) are currently worth buying at the full rate

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Hot Dog Day #82 posted:

I was watching Jeff Hoogland today on twitch while I was at work, and he logged off in mid frustration during his stream about the state of the game. It was my first time really watching hjm, but it feels like the game in a weird spot if the content creators are turning on it :/

not really, I mean it's not a good sign or anything and is bad in aggregate (and I'm not making claims about the overall health of Snap) but it also doesn't mean much if anything for any individual content creator who plays a game as something of a full time job to ragequit a single stream given burnout/playing on tilt/changing metas not favoring preferred strategies or play-patterns/incentives for people responding to that content/etc.

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Youremother posted:

Finally hit 500 :toot: What are the cards I should pin as soon as I see them. Shuri, Galactus, Aero, what else? I only have two pool 3 cards right now (Viper and Red Skull :gonk:) so if there's anything that works well in a pool 2 deck let me know

afaik the one card archetypes are usually pretty decent picks even if they're not at their best- i.e. Sera and Destroyer (to be clear: Ongoing Destroyer is weak right now but still okish and basically complete with pool 1-2 cards [with only a few marginal upgrades in pool 3] which makes it a tempting pickup early)

after that I'd look for cards played across multiple good decks (Mystique, She-Hulk), archetype-defining cards that are a bit less self-contained/need more pool 3 support (Patriot, Cerebro, Electro, Dracula, Death, Wave, Mister Negative, Lockjaw, etc.), and complementary pieces for things you already have (i.e. if you have Patriot then you're much happier to open Ultron/Dr. Doom and vice versa, and that Red Skull you have looks much better if you happen to snag a Shuri, which in turn makes a card like Taskmaster go from "meh" to "must have" [but not worth going out of your way to get before Shuri])

e: I think this video is a pretty fair take
e2: oh and I guess I should point out that Thanos (as another eternal pool 5) is worthy of consideration in the same way (and with the same important "he's stupid expensive and wants pool 3+ support, so probably don't actually pin him unless you've got a big 'ol stockpile of tokens or some of those cards already" caveats) as Galactus since he's the basis of the current Best Deck

LGD fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Mar 1, 2023

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Youremother posted:

Every video game I've ever played with bot opponents has had accusations of psychic bots responding to hidden information. Card games, shooter games, racing games, you name it, I've seen people accuse the bots of hacking. Sure, it happens some times, but most of the time it's just plain bad luck.

my understanding is that it's not really an accusation so much as an openly acknowledged fact in Snap - there are multiple types/levels of bots and while the lower level ones play randomly and do stuff that even a very poor human player wouldn't, the toughest ones do absolutely "see" the unrevealed cards you've put down and make their own plays in response to them, so if you try to bluff those bots or do a 50/50 play you'll loose 100 times out of 100 (conversely they're not actually strategic "thinkers" and are still pulling cards out of actual decks Second Dinner put together for them, so if you can put them in a situation where you're winning 2 lanes regardless of what they play they'll default to winning the other lane as hard as possible, and if you get good at exploiting them you can farm the bots up to ridiculously high Infinite Levels)

Artelier posted:

Does this advice include Shuri because I have her pinned and I just crossed over 3k with Token Tuesday and I can't decide if I should pull the trigger or hold on and hope, iunno, Thanos or Galactus (or maybe Kang) comes into my shop.

Not quite S3 complete, but the cards I'm missing are like. Destroyer, Gambit, Colleen Wing, Luke Cake, Miles Morales, Leader, Black Cat, Black Widow, Black Bolt....and I think that's it?

imo, definitely get Shuri if you want to enjoy her while she's busted- she'll get downgraded eventually, but will probably be nerfed well before then and you should have all the other cards to build Shuri Zero which is one of the best decks in the format

LGD fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Mar 1, 2023

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Jedit posted:

If you play Valkyrie in a lane with a Shuri boosted card, the card is set to 3 power, not to 6. So why does Shuri's ability persist after Quantum Realm goes to work? It's exactly the same effect.

because it is in fact being handled similarly, and is applied as part of/at the end of the On Reveal process? green/hogoblin comes in as a -X and then has On Reveal effects happen -> it crosses the table, the location triggers and sets its power to 2, then Shuri happens and it sets the power to 4

it's definitely potentially confusing (and they could do a better job making it explicit what order things will occur in without having to just know), but that outcome makes sense and there's nothing "persisting"

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Sandwolf posted:

If they play Leech on T5 they’re destroying their momentum to kneecap your T6. Leech as is, is fine, imo, and good for the health of the game. Leech being cheated out for 0 energy is highly degenerate though, I agree with that.

yeah - I sort of wonder if adding an "if played from your hand" rider to his On Reveal would be enough to fix the issue, since it keeps him viable as a fair tech card and still lets you get him out before t5 via Electro/Wave/etc., but with a much higher opportunity cost + potentially telegraphing the play

that and either making the stones count as starting in the deck or adding a "minimum 1" rider to Quinjet would probably do some decent work in toning down Thanos

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

DrBouvenstein posted:

Is the Token Tuesday bundle worth it? I feel like it is, but maybe not... I'm also at like only 100 tokens so I need some fast.

the token tuesdays have always been good thus far and what you should be looking for in terms of gold->token conversion, as it's been (X+50 gold) -> (X tokens + some boosters), for a conversion ratio in the upper 80%'s to mid 90%'s, whereas a lot of historically "good" bundles were more in the 70's (though then you need to account for credits and how much you value variants and blah blah blah)

as noted the upcoming special offer is better overall when you take credits (and maybe the variant) into account, but still not quite as good at pure gold->token conversion (700->600 instead of 650->600), so getting either or both is a very reasonable use of your gold

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

New Leaf posted:

Valkyrie is good against Galactus isn't she? Fucks up whatever heavy hitter they had lined up for you.

not really

she's 5 energy, so it's often kind of hard to lose priority vs. the "nerfed" 2 power Galactus and then have enough bodies in the lane to tie/come out ahead

and she's not exactly a great play into Knull

e;fb

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

sirtommygunn posted:

When you try to draw but your hand is full is the card discarded lost or does the draw just not happen?

just doesn't happen

relatedly, you won't exceed hand size due to things like cards being returned which can sometimes be used to do things like playing cards into lukes bar

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Alex Ross Agent 13 which is at least not a pixel variant :toot:

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

yeah this doesn't fix everything but it's a massive, massive, massive improvement

New Leaf posted:

Can someone link wherever the notes are? I'm struggling to find them.

they're on the discord in game-announcements, I'll edit them in momentarily

e:

quote:

MARVEL SNAP: What’s Next?
Hey, welcome to our first development roadmap update for 2023! We’ve been having a blast exploring the Savage Land, Quantum Realm, and time-traveling to the… Past? Future? We’re not sure. We’ve had some great seasons, launched a BUNCH of new Series 5 cards, balanced some metagames, and some of us even got to Infinite Rank. Whoa. But, we’re ready to talk about what’s next for MARVEL SNAP! 👀


Coming Soon
Items listed here are in the final phase of development, and these features are almost ready to release to players! We’re cleaning up, polishing art, and squashing bugs. Our Quality Assurance teams scrape over all the little details to ensure we have as smooth an experience for players as possible. Once features are “Coming Soon,” we can start to plan release dates, timelines and share some insight with players.

The team is hard at work putting the finishing touches on a few much-anticipated features:
*New Competitive Mode - Conquest
*Card Acquisition Improvements
*Token Shop Revamp
*Ranked Mode Improvements
*Infinite Rank Revamp

What is Conquest?

Conquest takes the Battle Mode format you know and love from Friendly Battles to the next level! In Conquest, players will queue up against other players to face-off in Battle Mode to earn rewards. Winning a series of battles without a loss unlocks tickets to higher leagues against tougher opponents… culminating with Infinity league at the end of each season. Players will battle their way to the top to claim ultimate victory – and the best rewards.

When you queue up for a Conquest match, you’ll start by choosing which league to compete: Proving Grounds, Bronze, Silver, Gold, Vibranium, or Infinite. Proving Grounds is always available to play, but players need the corresponding ticket to access higher tiers. Tickets are earned by winning a league series in the previous tier - for example: winning your Silver series will earn you a Gold Ticket. Players win a league series by defeating three consecutive opponents.

In addition to Tickets for higher leagues, each victory grants Medals that can be used in the Conquest Shop to unlock exclusive rewards. There’s a brand new Conquest Shop every season with new cosmetics, including a seasonal exclusive variant that can only be unlocked in the Conquest Shop.

We think that Battle Mode is a super fun way to play MARVEL SNAP and Conquest lets you play Battle Mode whenever you want, against the best competition, for the best rewards! The team is actively developing Conquest and we ran our first company-wide playtest last week. We’re hoping to release Conquest in June!

Token Shop Revamp
Token Shop is an awesome way to target the cards you want most, but we think we can do it even better. We’re dividing the Token Shop into a few different sections that will allow players to target new and desirable cards faster. We’re also revamping the look and feel of the Token Shop so you can swipe through to see what’s new.

*Weekly Spotlight: When a new Series 5 card is released, it will be immediately featured in its own section for its first week in MARVEL SNAP. Once you buy the Weekly Spotlight card, this section will be hidden until the next new card is released. If you want the newest cards at release, here’s what you’ve been waiting for!
*Series 4 & Series 5: This section functions nearly the same as previously, but only features Series 4 and Series 5 cards. This section will feature a card you don’t own from all currently available Series 4/5 cards and rotates every 8 hours. Series 5 cards will be added to this section once they leave the Weekly Spotlight.
*Ultimate Variants: Ultimate Variants are some of the most epic variants in the game. We felt they deserved their own section too! We’re moving Ultimate Variants out of the way of seeing Series 4 and 5 cards and into their own rotation for those of you who want to make your decks that much cooler.
We’re aiming for these changes to make our April patch



Ranked Mode Improvements
We’ve been hearing your feedback about Ranked Mode and we agree it’s time to make some changes. Ranked Mode is a tough feature to get right and we want to find the right balance through some additional iteration. We’re making a few updates before our next season that will address issues with some players feeling unable to progress or players that feel they are not facing worthy opponents.

*Matchmaking Algorithm: We’re improving our matchmaking algorithm to create higher quality matches for all players–including an update that will prevent players from matching against an opponent more than 30 ranks away.
*Infinite MMR Floor: When someone reaches Infinite Rank, we’ll take a snapshot of their MMR (Matchmaking Rating). For the rest of the season, their MMR cannot fall below that value. This change is to address players that could intentionally lose many games at the Infinite Rank floor to drop their MMR for the next season. You’ll still be able to increase your MMR while playing in Infinite Rank.
*Infinite vs Infinite Matchmaking: Players that reach Infinite Rank will only match against other Infinite Rank players

We know there’s more work to be done. We think the current journey to re-climb to a previous season’s rank is too difficult. To that end, we are exploring changes to how many cubes are required per rank, how many bonus cubes are granted when a player achieves a new Tier, and potentially how much of a reset is incurred each season. These numbers are actively being crunched right now, so we don’t have more details to share, but rest assured, our goal is to deliver a satisfying seasonal experience for players who wish to get better at the game, and see their rank increase as a result

We’ve also seen a lot of feedback around matching by MMR and why we don’t simply match by Rank. The team has been weighing the positives and negatives of both these options. In a pure match-by-rank situation, it can lead to an awful start-of-season experience, as players are matching up against opponents who are far superior to them. However, we are exploring alternate ways of matchmaking to try to deliver a more satisfying overall experience, as there are some upsides to matching-by-rank. We have some ideas that we think can capture the best of both worlds, and will be trying out updates to the matchmaker in future seasons. We’ll absolutely be sharing more as we lock in details–you’ll hear more from us soon

Card Acquisition Improvements
Every new card released in MARVEL SNAP should be exciting and impactful. We want players to wonder how that card could unlock new possibilities for fun or to win matches--and be able to actually play out those dreams. We’ve heard your feedback that we’re not meeting these expectations right now. It's time to change that! We're increasing the rate that all players earn Tokens, including a huge boost for Series 3 players that brings them in-line with Series 4/5 players. These changes will give all players equal opportunities to unlock brand new cards for themselves--whether you're in Series 3 or beyond.

*More Tokens: We’re increasing the amount of Tokens earned on the Collection Level Track for all players who have not yet collected all Series 4 and Series 5 Cards. Starting at Collection Level 500 players will be able to earn between 200-600 tokens in Collector’s Caches and Collector’s Reserves regardless of whether they have completed Series 3 or not. This is an increase of 4X for players who have not yet completed Series 3! Once a Card Series is complete, caches that would have contained a card from that Series will now be replaced with 100 Tokens. All of these changes will result in more tokens for more people! 🎉
*Choose Your Card: Series 3 cards now have their own section in the Shop! Once per season players who haven’t completed Series 3 will be able to claim one free Series 3 card to help them fill out their favorite deck and take a step closer to completing their collection. Now you can save your tokens for Series 4 and 5 cards! You don’t need to wait long for these updates, both of these changes will be in our next patch!
Infinite Rank Revamp
For most of us, the climb to Infinite Rank has been our peak achievement… and we have great news! We’re completely revamping Infinite Rank so your experience doesn’t end at Infinite - it’s just the beginning! We want to create an exciting and fair battleground for our most skilled players to compete on the Infinite Rank Leaderboard. Once players reach Infinite Rank, they are separated into their own ecosystem that will highlight two important numbers:

*Skill Rating Score: This score is your personal skill rating score; it’s similar to your matchmaking rating. You’ll be able to see how your skill rating score changes after each match. If you’re more interested in increasing your personal skill from season to season, this is the number for you.
*Leaderboard Rank: Your friend has always claimed that they’re the Best MARVEL SNAP Player - well, now we’ll find out. This is the leaderboard number based on the ranking order of each Infinite player’s skill rating score.

We’re fine-tuning the experience and visuals for the new Infinite Rank ecosystem and currently scoping out the work, but we’re hoping to release it as soon as possible! More details on timing soon!

In Development

Game features in this section are actively being developed, iterated, and improved upon. Our production team dedicates team resources, generates tasks/timelines, and ensures we’re moving forward. Features and systems in this bucket can change dramatically – we might find our initial idea wasn’t fun OR we might discover we can achieve our goals in an unexpected way!

Here’s some features that are currently in development:
*PC Widescreen UI
*Smart Decks
*Avatars & Titles by Deck
*Personalized Shop
*Global Matchmaking

In Concept
We have BIG dreams about what we’d like to bring to the future of MARVEL SNAP! The first step towards these dreams is turning ideas into concepts through discussion, documentation, and planning. Features currently in the “In Concept” phase have been initially scoped out and given shape but have not yet had any engineering or development work done in the game itself.

This is where we’d love your feedback the most! Concepts listed in this section may be elevated in priority, rescoped, or scrapped entirely… or we might hear something completely new from the community!

Here are some of the future concepts we’re thinking about for MARVEL SNAP:
*Guilds (Social Systems)
*Collectible Emotes & Card Emojis
*Mythic Variants
*PC Controller Support
*Seasonal Audio
*Test Deck Mode

Test Deck Mode
Where’s Unranked Mode? What’s this Test Deck Mode?! We know that players want a quick-and-easy way to try out new decks or strategies. Since before Global Launch, we’ve been talking about the idea of Unranked Mode as a solution to this problem. But, as we explored this feature, we found that Unranked Mode comes with some not so great additional challenges. So, we set out to reimagine what this feature could be and Test Deck Mode evolved from there! We’re considering adding a button to the deck editing screen that will let you instantly hop into a low-stakes game against the computer. We’re still in early stages of concepting here, but we’d love to hear your thoughts on this new path.

Let us know what you think, and please continue to share your ideas for the future of MARVEL SNAP!

LGD fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Mar 17, 2023

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

New Leaf posted:

Thanks! Was hoping for something on the Shuri/Thanos stuff but they probably haven't figured it out themselves.

same, since I just spent tokens a few days ago to complete Shuri (outside Titania, but Ebony Maw works fine) and it'd be nice to know if its going to be a light hand or turbo-nuke

but at least it looks like the opportunity cost of spending those tokens is about to be substantially less than it was!

LGD
Sep 25, 2004


lol what the gently caress are they doing

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Pixeltendo posted:

I got enough gold for the mystery variant bundle and



:cripes:
I go back and forth on Taco Bell MODOK, it's right on the line of so-bad-it's-good and just unconscionably awful

Walla posted:

I think I have found my new favorite deck. It's a deck I stole from Specimen on YouTube. Angela is a flex spot, and the 5 drops could probably be changed with others. I'm thinking of trying it with Carnage and She Hulk. Maybe. Everyone else is pretty essential to the deck, especially Debrii.



they're worth trying, but I think those probably are the best 5 drops for a clutter deck like that - Spider Woman is an effective 12 power vs. a lane with 4 opposing cards (which you can pretty much guarantee) so its hard to get much more space and energy efficient, and Aero is considered the best card in the game for a reason

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

New Leaf posted:

Debrii gets use! She's in a lot of "junk" decks where your goal is to clog your enemy's lanes, plus she shows up in Blue Marvel/Kazar/Patriot where you clog your enemy and get an army of sentient attack Rocks.

Yeah Debrii is pretty core to those Junk/Patriot lists and is definitely a good pull - also worth noting her use as a tech card vs. Galactus (which has tools to solve it ofc, but that's because they need tools against Debrii and she can still gently caress them up something fierce depending on the timing)

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Jedit posted:

The people doing the talking are whiners who play Shuri decks.

nah, they're both tech cards whose power level means they deserve to be looked at on an ongoing basis, and Shuri decks in particular both run Aero and frankly are less affected by Leech than a lot of other decks (it blows out some of the taskmaster plays but other times you just drop your big idiots and its fine)

kind of different cases though, since Aero is just high general power level in nearly any deck and isn't necessarily bad for the game, while Leech is currently at-issue because of a specific interaction with other cards in a particular archetype that heavily reduce the (normally significant) opportunity cost of running it/playing it + that letting it serve as proactive engine protection

I don't think most people want to gut either, but it's hard not to miss Aero's standalone strength/applicability, or that a fair 5 energy leech is a pretty different prospect than a 0-1 energy leech accompanied by simultaneous board development

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

man, turn 3 project pegasus into aero->cosmo in an empty lane with priority is some top quality dream-crushing

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

No Wave posted:

One of the devs was doing some twitter Q&A today. He said Thanos had one bad matchup, some sera killmonger thing (48% matchup). Shuri had one bad matchup, Thanos (46%). So then they nerf Thanos and not shuri? He also said their internal experts on Shuri were confident that 12 power red skull would be going too far. I just dont rly understand it seems like alien talk to me.

Sandwolf posted:

It feels like they’re, for some reason, willing to die on the ship of “Shuri is fine and does not need a nerf” and I am flabbergasted by it. There wasn’t a single buff in this round of balance updates. They just did sensible nerds to big issues and then LEFT SHURI DECKS ALONE?

what? like half of the changes here were directly aimed at Shuri decks

Shuri isn't running a crazy value engine or shutting down your opponents game plan, it was just an accumulation of some of the strongest cards in the game + had the potential to just create too much power for other decks to beat with its good hands, so all these changes chip away at it by making it less consistent/more prone to opposing interaction/less overwhelming in the amount of power generated

generating a lot of power is something other decks do well, just not as well, you don't necessarily need drastic changes to bring Shuri down to a range where other things can compete

these things also work in combination - i.e. the Red Skull change doesn't really nerf it in isolation, but that's fine, Shuri->Red Skull for effective 22 power (24 with shuri) to likely win a single lane isn't actually that unreasonable (compare to stuff you can do with Dracula, Devil Dinosaur/Mystique, etc.), where it gets broken is with Taskmaster who then adds +30 power to a different lane, this cuts that line down by 4 power and makes it more vulnerable to disruption (via shang, aeroing the red skull into fisk tower, etc.), which significantly increases the chances other decks can compete

this is exacerbated by the she-hulk and aero changes also cut down on the decks' power with less ideal hands (and with cards that had been identified as being a bit strong even in other circumstances)

all of this might very well not be enough (I think it is likely shuri zero is still a top deck), but it's clearly an effort at reigning the dominant decks in without destroying them - I think it's reasonable to let the meta fall out a bit before crying that the nerfs weren't sufficient

e: I am excited for High Evolutionary, strength aside it'll be fun to have something else to do with the vanilla cards beyond Patriot, especially some of the ones that don't usually see play even there

LGD fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Mar 21, 2023

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Zodack posted:

Now, instead of having to beat 30+ power in two lanes, you need to beat 26ish+ power in two lanes. Bravo

*one lane, and that's with their ideal nut hand, their other draws are also a bit weaker and Aero no longer does nearly as much to bail them out of different scenarios (while new Aero played in opposition remains almost as good as it was)

that's still a tall order and you often won't beat that without your own deck having a similarly good draw, but that's true of other archetypes as well (Wong or Galactus when you don't have appropriate disruption for example) and that might actually be fine when you're looking at things on the level of match wins - reduced consistency and slightly reduced power can go a long way towards bringing 60-40 and 55-45 matches back towards 50-50

PlasticAutomaton posted:

It's almost like the real problem with the deck is the 4 drop that can give up to 15 13 extra power and it's hilariously easy to protect

it's very possible that is the case, but again that's actually not as exceptional as is being suggested - that all of that quite literally applies to Dracula as well, who often adds quite a bit more than 13 power and is far harder for most decks to interact with than Shuri is, and from a design perspective she doesn't have many buttons to push that don't effectively make her a new card or remove her from the game

the big difference between the two is that Dracula really wants to be in a discard shell and can't take advantage of the same sorts of cloning effects, whereas Shuri lends herself more to goodstuff archetypes and imposes few restrictions on deckbuilding (basically just wanting big dudes + cloning effects) - that's why I think the initial approach of trimming around the edges is a reasonable one, because (with the exception of Red Skull) the cards being hit were all already on the border through their own merits

(that's also why I won't be surprised if she does eat a nerf even if these changes successfully reign in the deck + targeting Shuri herself was also a reasonable approach, because the flexibility and power of the effect make it likely she'll be a recurring problem)

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

FlamingLiberal posted:

I would say Cloak, I'm not sure what purpose he serves in a Galactus deck

he solves things like debrii and losing randomly to central park squirrels

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Quetzadilla posted:

Hm shuri just showed up in my token shop which i should probably insta-buy but also I have barely any P3+ cards.

having gotten her early and then taken forever to open either Taskmaster or Aero I can assure you that she's quite good even in non-ideal decks, if you've got appropriately beefy boys/supporting elements in your limited p3 selection (i.e. I had Taskmaster/She-Hulk and used Zola over TM)

of course if you don't have any of that then yeah, maybe wait, but she's now only really in competition with S4 and S5 cards, so the opportunity cost in terms of "what decks can I play now/soon?" is actually much lower than when you had to weigh deploying tokens to target S3 cards - the choice is really her vs. saving for the perma S5 cards as they're the archetype defining ones, with a few role-players as a secondary consideration if you happen to have their supporting elements already (i.e. Surfer, Darkhawk, Knull if you already have Galactus, etc.)

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Walla posted:

I don't think I will ever buy Shuri or ever use her. I think the design philosophy behind her is more toxic for the game than anything else I've seen so far.

what "design philosophy" is that exactly?

it's a card that buffs your next play, that's pretty darned innocuous from a design philosophy standpoint, the argument is really about whether the value she provides is too much vs. the meta, but since nearly everyone agrees she'd be bad at 5 energy it seems pretty obvious to me that it's about the numbers rather than abstract principles

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Quetzadilla posted:

Yeah my only real hesitation was that i like playing a disruptive control deck (and losing, mostly) but now that I'm up near cl600 people have real decks with P4/5 cards so even my troll tactics don't do poo poo. Tldr I bought her.

you can always Shuri Hobgoblin :v:

e: also, more seriously, disruptive control remains a thing, it's just that it also really wants p3 cards - goblin, debrii, viper + hood for the trash decks, etc. Serra control may also be a bit better positioned with less early Leech on the ladder

LGD fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Mar 22, 2023

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

yeah, the reason to get this season pass is the value of the gold/credits you earn (+ variants if you like any)

he's a frustrating card, because he's not actually too far off from viable/good/outright busted if you consider what he'd look like with a power increase or cost reduction, but his need for a significant pre-split buff or multiple splits to even get near to parity with other things you could be doing (i.e. Doom + any halfway decent 5 drop) means it's hard to see him as a player going forward

outside chance he gets buffed down the line ofc, but I'm not sure how likely that is because his scaling really magnifies any changes

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

priznat posted:

There's not even that much more gold/credits in the paid version either, I guess the value could be ok for the price though.

iirc you only get a several hundred more credits over the free version, but something like 900 gold (which is something like $13 if you were buying it directly) and in total works out to like $15 in gold/credit value even if you entirely discount the cosmetics/boosters + card for any given month

my understanding is that if you're at all inclined to spend money on the game (for, say, Token Tuesday purposes) and play it enough to hit level 50 it'll basically always be a reasonable buy

LGD fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Mar 24, 2023

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

OxMan posted:

I tried doc ocking but even dropping a fat shurid 20 to pull a lane usually loses me the game. For every win with ock there are 4 matches where bringing their lane out just won them the game

that seems like a very high risk play generally, like obviously you can completely throw off their gameplan and/or create an overcommitment that doesn't leave them with enough resources to compete in other lanes, but he's still effectively giving your opponents a lot of free energy in a game with tight + deterministic resource constraints, and his timing usually means you're snagging some of the highest energy + power per slot cards in your opponent's deck

given that, unless you have intel/good guesses about the contents of your opponent's hand telling you otherwise, I think it's highly ambitious to assume you're not going to need more than 5 power per slot to cover what Doc is pulling down into an empty lane

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

THE AWESOME GHOST posted:

I just got galactus and he is very very fun

It looks like most of the best decks involve Nimrod at the moment though and I didn’t buy this months pass because the card seemed kinda boring

Galactus is absolutely his best current use case, and he does actually seem to be genuinely good in that deck (very mediocre otherwise though unfortunately)

if you're so inclined you can also just, y'know, buy the premium pass now, it's not like you'll miss out on anything

Artelier posted:

Galactus - He seems quite strong in the current meta. I already have all the pieces for the standard Galactus deck including Knull, so I guess this is the one I'm leaning towards (even if the playstyle seems a bit rote/repetitive). But I want to know, how are the Nimrod variants? That looks fun to do and setup, but not sure how feasible it actually is. I don't have the Season Pass yet but I got a week to decide.

my understanding is that Nimrod currently looks like he's very likely to be in whatever the "best" version of the Galactus deck ultimately is, it opens up some alternate lines/let's you win games you might otherwise not, and, by virtue of being Shuri-&-location-boostable/Destroyer-moveable power you can lay down before blowing up the board, it creates some much-needed ambiguity about when/if/where you're dropping Galactus

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Bottom Liner posted:

IIRC once cards hit "played" state they can be bounced and discounted with Beast/Falcon
none of that makes Kitty Pride retroactively not have been in your deck?

DrBouvenstein posted:

Seeing Kitty Pryde, it seems pretty clear that the Quinjet nerf was basically just in prep for her, right? Cause otherwise she can easily get to 10 power for FREE on every turn but the first? Assuming you draw her in opening hand, and Quinjet in opening hand or for turn 2?

if that change was made for Quinjet's interaction with any forthcoming cards I'd point to Hit Monkey as a more likely culprit

but it was probably exactly what they said it was - a nerf to the dominant Thanos deck in a way that kept cards working like you'd expect them to + future proofing a legitimately dangerous mechanic (energy cost reduction) against unintended interactions down the road

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

novamute posted:

So once I get Kang I literally just slot him into every deck I have right?

eh, you can, but he likely makes a lot of decks worse on average - he's actually not costless as he only draws you a card if you can play him the turn he is drawn and being down a card can be a significant disadvantage for a lot of decks

I think your deck really wants to be able to do something (or avoid specific things) with the information, so Kang is obviously straightforwardly great in something like Galactus where you need to avoid interaction/information can be a premium and you can easily win the game with only a handful of cards (Galactus himself being a massive source of card advantage), but there are a bunch of archetypes where potential card disadvantage/lack of synergy/etc. means running him is likely giving up some win % vs. another option (Zoo, Patriot, likely Discard, etc.)

he also takes up a slot, which often isn't a high cost/can be a benefit, but consider a deck like stock Shuri Zero - is the information Kang is getting you going to win you nearly as many games as having the option to Vision/Captain Marvel into closed-off lanes? probably not

LGD fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Mar 28, 2023

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Chainclaw posted:

The nazi gets a cutesy card is a weird decision, although Red Skull being in a game built to sell you cosmetic cards of those characters seems weird.

pretty much all the cards get a cutsey cosmetic variant, and giving (one of) the nazi(s) an inherently diminutive/unserious stylization as (afaik) his only released variant makes sense in moving the association people make with the card from "genocide" to "snidely whiplash" without actually rehabilitating nazis/conveying strength (and his mechanical design is literally "gang up to beat the big nazi")

it's really more of an issue with Marvel as a property in any context where you're going to make villains playable game pieces, because some of the better-known heroes have rogue's galleries that are very heavy on nazis (Captain America + related characters especially)

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Hobo Clown posted:

What's a good Hit Monkey deck? I've used him a couple times and he seems just okay, but if folks are already calling for a nerf I must be missing out on something.

I think that says more about them than it does hit monkey

based on streams/etc, the best use so far seems to be in a bounce shell with bast/darkhawk where you can have some stupidly explosive t6 plays off beasted 1 drops/bast’d mysterio/demon(s) if you don’t get disrupted (very easy to do via wave/sandman/leech/locations/etc)

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Mons Hubris posted:

My best guess for how to nerf Shuri while still keeping her somewhat viable is just putting a cap on how high she can raise the next card to. Double the power of the next card (max 20) or something like that. Otherwise she's just a more expensive Forge.

eh, that's an inelegant and non-natural design, plenty of other ways to do things from the outright wrecking encouraged by the more reactionary whiners (i.e. moving to 5 energy without a substantial power buff) to redesigns that either change the nature of the card (i.e. mega-Forge that pairs with Brood/Sinister) or just breaks her synergy with the taskmaster/zola clone effects (i.e. On Reveal: Double the power of your highest power card at this location [maybe paired with an energy cost reduction/etc. based on testing])

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

the Sunspot nerf is probably deserved in terms of play rate and what he gives you vs. existing 1 drops, the thing that makes the change feel slightly awkward imo is the (currently on-hold) release of a comparable Series 5 card in Kitty Pryde, who accomplishes many of the same things (albeit with different specific synergies)

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LGD
Sep 25, 2004

flatluigi posted:

the thing with kitty is that you do have to keep casting her every time to get her buff

yeah she's a different card, which is why I said her synergies differ - she's obviously way worse when drawn/played late, doesn't like locked down lanes where sunspot does, really benefits cards that scale with on-play effects like Bishop/Angela, doesn't do Shuri float into She Hulk, etc.

but she still fills a similar role in terms of being a high utility and low opportunity cost 1 drop that smooths awkward curves, threatens more power than comparably costed cards, has easy synergy with other good cards, etc. so while it all makes sense and the Sunspot nerf is probably good in a vaccuum, it just feels awkward to have a S2 card getting toned down just as a 6k token psuedo-alternative is released

but whatever, decent odds we'll be playing them both in High Evolutionary decks soon enough anyway :)

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