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CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug
I just binge-read this whole thing in like a week and hoooooo boy looks like I chose a good time to get into this comic.

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CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

Rand Brittain posted:

Antimoney and Antwomony.

Antimony and Promony

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

Iceclaw posted:

So, she proposed Ayilu something valuable in exchange for her help in a dangerous task, making no effort to conceal that it was dangerous, and doing nothing to coerce her. I don't get the hosed up part.

I think the key is that giving a name is something that costs Annie nothing, and was super important to Ayilu. Annie easily could have given her a name without having her help out, it's not like giving her a name costs Annie anything. It's also something Annie knew Ayilu desperately wanted, and that she'd be unlikely to turn it down. It's kind of like going "oh hey, I'll give you the key to those handcuffs binding you if you do some favor for me" - giving the key costs nothing and you could very easily do it with no payment needed, but insisting on the favor first instead skews it into the realm of manipulation.

I do think Red was overly harsh, but they have a point.

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug
Jones, maybe?

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug
Oh right, it started attacking Parley first, yeah definitely not Jones. I was thinking Jones would be smart enough to just go "eh fine I know Parley sees me as a weird monster, may as well just hold her off until she realizes what's going on."

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

dragon enthusiast posted:

2 annies enter the forest
3 annies leave

If one Annie turned into two, we may even get FOUR Annies!

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug
I'm curious where the loving lake water is. It WAS in that little vial, which is now empty. Did someone drink it? Is it mixed into a pool or something?

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

Regy Rusty posted:

That vial looks more like a test tube. The one the water was in looked different: https://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1820

No rounded bottom

So you're right! My mistake. Still, sup with that test tube?

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

Kantesu posted:

And just so we have where this was established: https://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2162

Y'know, I never interpreted this as "the real Annie isn't in this time line anymore" or even "this isn't the comic's original time line."

Rather, I read it as "Annie herself never belonged to the time line of the comic." after all, we never visited that dude previously to have him confirm Annie belonged here.

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug
There’s literally videos with the author pronouncing names.

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug
I think the problem isn't that Loup is unlikable, it's that he isn't a very interesting character so far. I too have faith in Tom, but he just doesn't have much charisma and isn't very fun to hate. He's just kind of bratty and obnoxious.

Of course, the last few chapters have felt a bit... Weird. I feel like the art style has had a lot more deformed chibi style depictions added to it than it ever used to have. Maybe Tom is just trying out different styles, but these last few Loup pages especially feel like almost a different art style than before. With how much Tom pays attention to style matching substance, I'm guessing this isn't just him experimenting.

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug
To clarify I meant in general rather than just Loup, but thinking about it maybe it's only been Loup, Reynard, and the Annies that have been drawn like that? Has anyone else?

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

Regy Rusty posted:

I know we're all having fun making that same joke over and over but Loup already remembered the goose bone being a memory.

Just because he already remembers it, doesn't mean that it doesn't contain that memory! It could just contain a memory he already has, essentially being worthless.

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

Regy Rusty posted:

I don't think that's how it works

It's coyote.

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

Nettle Soup posted:

I really love the style on these last pages, with the moving terrain. He really can't keep the forest together.

You know, I've been assuming that the last several pages have taken place in the ether due to the surreal art, but now I'm wondering - is this literally how the forest looks? Is this just what the forest is like now? Does Loup have SUCH a poor grasp on the forest that it's starting to resemble the ether?

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug
Is this the first time we've seen the president principal guy since the time skip? I've been wondering what he's been up to.

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug
To be fair to Paz, we don't actually know WHAT she's upset about beyond Kat overworking herself and not being open. We don't know if Paz thinks this is cus of the dual Annies or something else that the Annies legitimately do have more control over.

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

jng2058 posted:

I dunno, feels like Paz (and some of the posters here!) seem to be giving Annie more agency in all this than is really the case. Outside of being a better Loup-wrangler (which may well be outside her capabilities) I'm not sure what exactly anyone's expecting Annie by herselves to do about all this. :shrug:

To be fair we also don't know what Paz is upset about, beyond "Kat's overworked, and Paz thinks Annie's to blame"

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

Kantesu posted:

Hilariously out there theory: Zimmy is actually this timeline's Annie and Annie not belonging in this timeline predates Loup by a wide margin.

poo poo this would be great.

I've actually theorized that "our" Annie never belonged here in the first place, or at least for some great length of time. We never have had proof that she belonged in this timelime, we just assumed she did.

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

Lt. Lizard posted:

The other Annie is real and good too and from this point onward we will have two Annies.

I decided to read the thread from back when we first saw the second Annie to see the "live" reactions out of curiosity, and this post has aged very well.

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

Dr Subterfuge posted:

At least one of those Annies was swiped from another timeline, but yeah I guess not belonging could also include "you're supposed to be dead."

Yeah, they never said "neither of them belong in this time line" - it was just "neither of them should be here"

Also worth noting is that the interpreter in that scene mentioned that "normally there is no need for more than one timeline or dimension, but some creatures, like coyote, can create them if they wish." I'm guessing this means there aren't a billion timelines like the thread is speculating - maybe there's really only the two. Kat's initial line of questioning wasn't even" how do we get Annie back" but was "there's a timeline where Annie doesn't come out of the forest?" - that there's now a timeline with no Annie. I'm wondering if Kat is less concerned with making things "right" or whatever with the timelines and is more concerned with the alternate version of herself that lost her best friend, or (less selfishly) that timeline in general for not having an Annie in general.

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

Saoshyant posted:

The thing about the birds is that they supposedly predate even the court's robots. They weren't made to save Annie but to watch over everything. Or so the robots said.

I'm wondering if Kat is doing this to try to learn something about how the arrow was made and how it works, to try to fix Annie's predicament - something she couldn't learn just by experimenting with it, and now that the interdimensional police or whoever gave her that dire warning about messing with it, she can't do any more experiments on the arrow itself. But if she could just make one from scratch...

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

Wa11y posted:

Because, I think finding out you will build something like that in the future would be kinda horrifying and put some SERIOUS pressure on you, because now YOU have to figure out how to get to the point where you CAN make something like that. Just in general, putting aside the possibility that something you will make will screw with the timeline and possibly prevent your friend from dying like they were supposed to. And then realizing you HAVE to make it because you HAVE made it.

Nonsense! Kat can just send the instructions back in time to herself, then she'll know how to do it!

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

Wyld Karde posted:

So the GC subreddit today had a link to this rather interesting bit of theorycrafting.

Tl;dr, The reason neither Annie belongs on this timeline is because she was supposed to die when she fell off the bridge way back at the end of chapter seven, but Kat's time travelling bird changed that.

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

Dr Subterfuge posted:

Nonsense! Her future self can decide the work involved in solving the problem was valuable in its own right and give her squat! Her future self has kept her in the dark until now after all. Or maybe Temporal Affairs have some opinions about it.

I still love the ghost interpreter guy who was like "Oh, yeah, Coyote makes some alternate timelines on occasion, it's really inconvenient" so mundanely, like it's just another day on the job.

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

Uthor posted:

If Kat is taught how to do a thing, then goes back in time to teach herself, then where did the initial knowledge come from?

From Kat, of course

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

Wittgen posted:

Not if Kat's ascension is either the end goal of Coyote's plan or some essential component to it.

I wonder if coyote's plan to "defeat" the court is to prod Kat along until she makes machines that are identical to nature, and thus begins spreading nature throughout the court. He doesn't want to beat the court by forcing nature into them, but instead by tricking them into turning themselves into nature.

E: granted coyote's never seemed that against technology, he doesn't seem to hate it or anything. I actually am not very confident in his opinion of the court in general. Loup is more than happy to destroy it, but I don't know if coyote wants to.

E2: alternate plan, coyote wants to k ow what it's like to go up against a God that he himself didn't make

CodfishCartographer fucked around with this message at 00:11 on May 30, 2020

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug
We should also keep in mind this is purely Kat's speculation - other theories about neither Annie belonging could still be applicable, we don't know for certain that Kat is correct.

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug
Maybe Annies know how to contact Kat's old bird boyfriend whose name I forget

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug
I like Brian Ellis' comic Problem Child, the art's not amazing but the story and characters are solid - if a bit rough early on.

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug
I don't remember who Brinnie is, even after googling her.

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

Warmachine posted:

I unironically loved The Stone. I know it was en vogue to complain about the pacing, but it really worked for me as a "holy poo poo" piece.

It legit is probably one of mine too, although to be fair I didn't read it live. It's a fantastic chapter that explores a really cool idea.

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug
lol if The Breakout isn't your favorite chap

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug
You know I think the only way to REALLY be sure which is the best chapter is to go read all of them over again.

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug
3 is way too few to choose

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug
Frankly offended everyone here is implying Forest and Court Annies are the same person.

pik_d posted:

Also I wonder which characters are gonna be cheesed to the top because you can submit multiple entries.

What kind of monster would do such a horrible thing

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

Warmachine posted:

Or all of this is predestined. Everything that will happen has happened and everything that has happened will happen. Nothing is unaccounted for, and the start and endpoints are arbitrary.

I've always favored a no-free-will interpretation of time, where no one has a choice in their actions, but this is fundamentally irrelevant because we can't perceive outcomes to be anything other than what they appear to be--or rather, we can't see outside the system. I kinda wonder if Tom might be going in this direction with how casually people in the know are treating time travel. It makes sense for it to be NBD if any shenanigans are part of the larger plan.

(Coincidentally, I think it would explain a lack of time travelers, because most people who learn that knowledge would probably be stricken by a deep sense of ennui knowing that everything they do from that point on has already been done. Most would probably want to forget they ever learned the secret, which the universe obliges because that's how the whole thing was written. It would take an exceptionally strong will to know that everything you will ever do is predestined, and then keep going and acting your part in the play.)

Tom usually has a pretty clever twist on many of these concepts, so I'm going to guess it won't be as clear-cut as just "yeah everything is fate"

My prediction is that everyone has free will, but ALSO everything is predetermined. So like, you have free will and can do whatever you choose! But you will always choose to do the exact same thing, so it's sort of like everything is set in stone! So there's some reasoning why / how you can't know what you'll do in advance, so there's no way you can do something different.

There could maybe be some ether poo poo too, like the future is "fake" that is created by the ether based on what each and every person connected to it plans to do. So if you can somehow see the future and decide to change it, then the future literally changes to have "always have been" how it will be based on this change. Sort of like how Coyote put the stars in the sky, or how Jones came to be.

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

Kennel posted:

https://gunnerkrigg.fandom.com/wiki/Tic-toc#Appearances
Wiki lists bunch (most, I think) of appearances, but doesn't include late chapter 7/early chapter 8, so it isn't a comprehensive list.

Time to reread the whole thing just to be sure!

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug
Have Kat and Coyote ever even talked? This could be great

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CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug
Who?

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