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Accordion Man posted:Too bad they nerfed Petra, you could have gotten even more ridiculous with that start. I don't think they really nerfed Petra. I thought it just lost the gold which still makes it ridiculous. That's also not a very good petra place, too many floodplains. thehumandignity posted:Whoa whoa what the gently caress? Patch numero uno, right here. This was known. The Pathfinder is incredible. Bashez fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Jul 9, 2013 |
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Jul 9, 2013 06:02
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Okimin posted:There is something else to it. I can send the unit to another city state but not to my French neighbors. They have pretty small range at the start, you'll probably need to send it to a city state.
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Jul 9, 2013 06:24
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thehumandignity posted:It was known that they would upgrade directly to CB instead of archers like normal scouts? Yeah, going to a normal archer would be pretty lovely considering how much combat strength they'd lose.
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Jul 9, 2013 06:28
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Just finished a culture victory as Poland on emperor. Played on large islands, didn't even sniff a war and only built 3 cities. Poland's UA is incredibly powerful, like I thought. I was dipping into a fourth tree before I had unlocked ideologies. I think I got a good start with luxes that provided money because I was rich as hell pretty much the entire game, even without trade routes. I had wine, gold, gems around my cap and some more wines/marble on my island. I used my trade routes to give food. It's absurd. Late game one of my cities had +26 food from trade routes. Even at 40 pop they still grew every 3-4 turns. Rationalism was made stronger because of how many specialists you end up getting with the insane tall empires you can make now and the shitload of artist/writer/musician slots you get. Poland's UA lets you get off the ground pretty drat quick and it will make it super easy to open up tradition and liberty and head into rationalism.
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Jul 9, 2013 10:39
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I'm going to reiterate a couple points from my recap post because I put it in a chunk of text that likely didn't get read. Trade routes moving food between your cities is incredibly overpowered. Endgame I had 40 pop cities because each route was 12 or 13 food for a total of ~50 extra food for my 3 city empire. Even early game they're 4 food when you pop down a new city, they're fantastic. Rationalism got better because of the amount of specialists you can get from this and the increased specialist slots from the guilds. Terracotta Army is no longer a culture building but is hilarious if you've allied with a military city state early. It provides a copy of each land unit in your empire. Poland's UA does not disappoint. It will probably allow you to fast expand while filling up tradition in a manner more familiar to the old gold cheesing ways.
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Jul 9, 2013 17:23
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Speedball posted:Looks like Exploration unlocking will be pretty important for a cultural victory, even though it's entirely sea-based. Because it unlocks the the Louvre wonder, and that has many slots for sticking stuff into. For my extremely easy culture win as Poland I went tradition, aesthetics, rationalism, got all but two level 1 things from freedom and then did like half the commerce tree. I never went to war and only had one antiquity close by so I don't think I even ran out of places to put stuff, except for one brief moment for a... musician? maybe. I can't remember. I had tons of art spaces though. Varjon posted:Shoeshone badassery report: MadDjinn implied they kind of had a cooldown you'd cycle through. I don't know if there's randomness too it or not.
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Jul 9, 2013 20:10
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Minorkos posted:I don't intend to quote anyone and tell him like "see??? you're wrong" He clearly liked playing the AI better, and you don't have to play anything you don't want to. Your friend was being a dick and you're being a baby*. Edit: *By posting about it. Bashez fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Jul 9, 2013 |
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Jul 9, 2013 21:48
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fspades posted:This is with Hotels. But yeah, it sounds like I should stop putting more great works and just spend them on GAs and tourism bombs. I was playing on emperor as Poland and got 800 tourism after doing the most for the world games and slowly built up to 700 again after that went away. You're doing something majorly wrong if you've only only got 140 tourism. I also only had a 3 city empire.
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Jul 10, 2013 01:23
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Fuligin posted:Having fun with Indonesia on an archipelago map, although the AI's lack of luxuries to trade has hampered my efforts to become King of Spice Mountain. I was planning to do a conquest victory, but I forgot how difficult amphibious invasions are to pull off until the late game. Late game? The second you get ranged boats you win the game. The AI has no idea how to defend against it. If I want to be lazy and be assured I win the game I just make sure there's water on the map.
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Jul 11, 2013 04:56
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Inspector_71 posted:The AI used to build infinity cities, they toned it waaaay down in BNW it seems. Yeah, unfortunately it made emperor stupid easy now. It's basically just click buttons and win, I hardly think things through anymore because I know I have a giant production/food/science advantage.
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Jul 12, 2013 01:34
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Protagorean posted:I don't know about you guys, but I haven't noticed the AI missing a beat re: expansion since BNW hit. My last game, I still got to play "hunt for the last city" when going for a domination victory because Russia and the U.S. decided they wanted to colonize single-tile islands and the loving South Pole, and I hadn't researched Satellites yet. I played a terra game and was going to shoot myself in the head when I realized polynesia started in the spain area while I started around china. I got 8 cities planted in the new world before polynesia got one. You can out tech the AI pretty early now because they're not getting a huge advantage from tons of cities. Usually on emperor I need universities to catch up and public schools to pull ahead (or keep pace with a runaway). Now I'm usually one of the earlier people to universities and it's a runaway from there. My last game I didn't even build trade routes, they just weren't necessary. I'm pretty disappointed with how easy BNW has made the game because of how much I hate immortal.
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Jul 12, 2013 02:14
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Hazdoc posted:Pump up the difficulty then. I believe the AI are less likely to declare war on lower difficulties, even if they have a bigger army. Once you hit Emperor, they generally are unafraid to declare on you and spam units. Emperor is piss easy in this expansion with the AI's lack of excess happiness preventing them from developing a science lead while you're still hamstrung by happiness.
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Jul 12, 2013 04:13
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Jastiger posted:Awesome, thanks that is super helpful. I've been unlocking them.
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Jul 12, 2013 05:23
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:You have to manually browse through the Civilopedia into the Social Policies section and then the ideology of your choice. It then lists the Tenets alphabetically and you have to click each one to find out what their tier is and their bonus. Yeah... there are some pretty massive interface flaws still, it's kind of shocking just how awful the civilopedia is, which gets real noticeable when the other parts of the interface become lacking. Or, as suggested, press the spyglass* button that will list every single possible tenet in each ideology. *magnifying glass if you prefer
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Jul 12, 2013 06:15
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Brannock posted:Hmm. I don't have any of the additional maps available anymore in Single Player - I only have the default Continents, Archipelago, Pangaea, Fractal, Terra maps available. I could have sworn I was able to use the additional maps in Single Player before; they're available if I set up a game through the mod menu, so I know I still have access to those maps. If you're talking about the quick set up thing it only allows the basic map choices (iirc). In advanced set up you can go pick your map, but it will hold those settings for your next game in your quick set up.
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Jul 12, 2013 21:19
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victrix posted:I haven't seen a neat summary unfortunately. I thought cities on rivers got 25% to trade routes as well. Kyrosiris posted:Oh no, Bismark, I didn't loving pop a Liberty finisher GE to try and get the Petra you just sniped or anything in a city with one loving desert tile. It's worth building Petra wherever you can just to keep it out of someone else's hands. Bismark is smart.
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Jul 12, 2013 22:39
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 Since we're posting Moroccan starts. Posting this game makes me think about how lazy I am with workers. I wanted to force production on petra so I'm working totally unfarmed hills. Jesus I'm bad at this game sometimes. For some reason I'll get singularly obsessed with a certain goal (petra) and forget to play the game in any intelligent manner.
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Jul 13, 2013 21:30
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A Tartan Tory posted:Yeah, I am caught in this 'insanely good desert city' funk as well, you aren't alone brother! So this has to have settings for extra poo poo right? I've never seen an area like that without having extra resource settings on.
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Jul 14, 2013 00:01
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Kooriken posted:Just had a crushing Diplomatic Victory as Morocco where I had literally every CS in the game allied with me, the 2 bonus votes from Forbidden Palace, and the bonus votes from World Religion and World Ideology (both of which were forced through by me and my ridiculous number of delegates, as I am ALSO the host and always have been) I think the World Congress needs some serious retooling. It's too easy to just buy all the city states. If you get freedom you're basically given 8 CS allies anyway. I almost established freedom as the world ideology before any other civ even got an ideology. Stupid Ghandi picked up order a few turns before the vote went through though.
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Jul 14, 2013 00:41
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Tulip posted:So i tried to do deep Honor as my opening with Aztecs to turn the barbarians of the world into my own personal play things, and while the honor opener and closer are good, i really should have just taken the opener and then switched over to Liberty or Tradition, because man those other bonuses give you jack-all for anything other than smashing face. Tradition with the Aztec UB is ridiculous good. They made liberty better by making it so you can't cheese out a bunch of settlers as easily (you still can though) but tradition should still be the go to opener unless you've got a specific plan in mind.
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Jul 14, 2013 07:19
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Platystemon posted:I find freedom to be really powerful now that the ideologies are more flexible than the old social policy trees. It helps that my Treaty Organization works like this: That's absurdly powerful.
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Jul 15, 2013 03:00
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Platystemon posted:
I was getting 12 (i thought 13 but I'm probably remembering wrong at this point) from my sea food routes. I find it funny to put two of those in to one city and watch it explode.
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Jul 15, 2013 05:16
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Speedball posted:Scout first to get more ancient ruins, monument second. Shrine third if you're gunning for a particular religion (which means, research pottery first!) but otherwise optional. With the new way things are balanced you also want to research animal husbandry pretty soon just to get the first caravan and get some gold coming in. How fast you prioritize building your worker depends on whether or not you're using the Liberty social policy tree for fast expansion. Depending on how much stuff is around me I'll go scout scout shrine, or scout shrine. Unless I'm poland or something I wouldn't build a monument. It's a lot of hammers spent for something you'll get free anyway. I'd rather have a worker. If you're going Liberty building a monument early is fine, but Liberty is not as good as Tradition.
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Jul 15, 2013 23:17
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Marketing New Brain posted:Nah Liberty is still quite insane, you just have to be a bit more reserved in how many cities you set up because, unsurprisingly, increasing tech costs for cities makes ICS kind of a problem. I hope they fix it since it is a horrible change, although the new DOF for trading gold is kind of like hitting the lottery in half your games. We're just going to go in circles on this, because we have before. In an absolute min/max sense Tradition is just better than Liberty. The only great things out of liberty are the 1 production in each city and now that settlers are a bit harder to get the free/cheaper settlers policy is good too. Tradition just makes more of everything including gold, which lets you grow super tall super fast with food trade routes because you don't even need trade routes to be making tons of money as tradition. You can also rush buy settlers just fine in most games, it will just be a few turns behind, but you'll be able to food stuff those new cities to catch them back up anyway.
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Jul 16, 2013 01:25
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Mwip57 posted:Wide empires (lots of cities) need to specialize their cities. If you build every building in every city you will be behind tall (few but large cities) in population per city and science improvements which will make you tech retarded. However, if you take a few of your cities and specialize them into science with schools, observatories, jungles w/universities, etc, you can easily match or exceed a tall civ in science. I don't understand this mindset. If you've built every building then don't you just have specialized cities that can switch their specialization on a whim? I mean, I guess technically they would just be better and more expensive cities rather than specialized. What do you do when you finish your science buildings in your science cities? Just do research/wealth?
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Jul 17, 2013 16:04
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I tried a terra game with polynesia on emperor where I just picked up and went to the new continent. It took me a bit longer than I'd like to get there and the settlement wasn't great so my cap was kind of shabby. I also thought "hey a bunch of land, this is where liberty shines!" Nope, I'd gotten too used to tradition and ended up so broke for the vast majority of the game that I had to do things like build the pyramids to sell the workers and get a great merchant with my great person and plant him. Still had money problems and as a result tech problems (in addition to the happiness problems). I think this might solve the liberty vs tradition question for me permanently. Tradition would have been 16 gpt more throughout most of that time, a big enough difference to totally change the game. The Barbarians were also incredibly hard to deal with because of the time and space they had. I did manage to found a city on a peninsula where it had one 6 culture tile and multiple 5 culture tiles. I'll really need to give it a shot with that design in mind, it was really cool. The entirety of the new world didn't have a drop of coal on it which was incredibly depressing.
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Jul 19, 2013 13:18
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Tao Jones posted:A purely peaceful cultural win is probably the most difficult victory to achieve at high difficulty. AIs who've spent the whole game spamming wonders are extremely hard to overcome with tourism before they win. It also takes a lot of finesse and/or luck to beat them to the museum-style wonders like the Louvre or Broadway, which are pretty important for a culture win. What counts as high difficulty? Culture is extremely easy to win. Not as easy as Diplomacy which just requires you to have accumulated a certain amount of money.
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Jul 19, 2013 17:12
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Tao Jones posted:Deity. It's possible I'm somehow doing it wrong, but in my last two attempts at a culture game without any war on my part, I ended up failing to overtake an AI that spammed a lot of wonders and subsequently got a ton of culture per turn. I'm of no help on Deity. I generally don't even like playing immortal because I try to speed through my games so I can get them done in a few hours.
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Jul 19, 2013 17:36
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Tulip posted:Honor Opener can be really fantastic to get you through Liberty really fast, but Discipline isn't that great until you start fielding truly large armies of melee units (which you shouldn't early on), Warrior Code gives you a great general which is cool but you'll probably get one soon enough, and ultimately you are going to be really hurting for Meritocracy (Military Caste is NOT a viable replacement, you don't want to have tons of babysitter units to try to counter unhappiness). I still don't understand the appeal of liberty. Meritocracy is just a slightly different version of Aristocracy, except it makes sure you're broke. Maybe I'm just consistently unlucky to have my secondary luxury resources be 6 to 10 tiles away but it's frequently not worth the money drain on roads until the city is close to big enough to be hitting the Aristocracy bonus anyway. How do you play around not having any money as liberty?
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Jul 19, 2013 22:47
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Tulip posted:Well he specifically asked for how comparing deep honor to honor+liberty, so that's why i answered with referring to Meritocracy. Personally i prefer Liberty - it means i can get, let's just say Ceremonial Burial, off of one shrine, something i can't pull off with Tradition without a lot of luck. It makes early land grab a little easier, but ultimately it's just two things 1)my timing is better with Liberty, and that's entirely personal and 2)in the metagame with the friends i play with, i'd rather get some extra early cities and religion than whatever i'm supposed to get off of Tradition. This stuff won't apply to fighting Deity AIs, because Deity AIs make early land grab basically a solved game. I've just gotten so used to the 4g from monuments, 8 gold from garrisons, and 4ish gold from my capital that when I play Liberty I screw myself over because I'm not getting all this passive money. Usually as Tradition I don't even build trade routes, favoring wonders instead. I'd rather put the 85 hammers (with tradition) toward a wonder rather than something that's going to generate 4-6 gold per turn but cost 2-4 per turn walking my poo poo out there to guard them. Instead I build wonders and then food stuff the newer cities.
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Jul 20, 2013 12:40
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Rascyc posted:Does anyone have good experience with ideologies on deity? I feel like I can never have control over my ideology choices and I just have to go with the pack since it comes right in the middle of the period where you're sling shotting passed the AIs. I'm not quite ready to deal with a -10 or -20 happiness modifier and I've never been culturally prepared to defend against it and I am not sure you even can be on deity. I just tried a peaceful tourism game with Polynesia. Figured I'd go order because the AI seems to vastly prefer order and my ally had gone order and another had gone freedom. I pick up order and boom, up to 11 happiness. A few turns later. Freedom, Freedom, Autocracy, Autocracy, Autocracy. Ugh. I didn't have any coal so I had to get to modern for my ideology. Perhaps I should have just waited until I got some coal and put up factories. I got unhappiness, completed the Eiffel tower and got backstabbed. Was the worst. I was going to start pumping out a bunch of hotel tourism too. I don't know why but I love Moais. Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I missed this post earlier, so I'll just agree with tulip and say that you're really undervaluing trade routes. You don't have to keep a constant guard on a trade route unless it's to some far-off distant location, in which case you should reconsider your choice of route. In BNW don't find myself building much more of a military than I was in G&K, I just use the military I already would have to occasionally check the trade routes, so it's not extra gold per turn lost. A lot of your strategy will also fall apart on anything higher than the medium difficulties as the AI will be more aggressive in settling and with its military, and you'll be beaten to most wonders. I will readily admit that below King difficulty, Tradition is probably objectively better in most circumstances for peaceful play. If I have to walk a unit out of my city to watch a trade route it's going to cost me money. In the early game it's going to cost me about half the trade route, I'd rather put a building up instead. It's hard to under value trade routes when they say on them exactly what they give. They're also necessary in Deity games for science and since you can't build wonders any way, you'll build them there. Tradition is just mathematically better than liberty. It's more food, gold, culture (early anyway), and science. Liberty is better production. It's production should be eclipsed late game by tradition's population though. Bashez fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jul 21, 2013 |
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Jul 21, 2013 00:36
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A Tartan Tory posted:Opinions goons? Where the hell do I settle? I'm personally leaning towards the west yellow and east blue. I think these are correct. Being on a river is preferable and I don't think there's enough incentive to leave the river on the yellow. Starting on a hill is awesome so you should do that when you can. It will also have 4 available horses eventually for super stable action.
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Jul 22, 2013 02:21
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Can Korea sell their library and then rebuild it to get the tech boost?
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Jul 23, 2013 11:29
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Jolan posted:Could anyone enlighten me on when ancient ruins can start giving faith? Is it after you've got a shrine, after you've got a pantheon, after a certain number of turns, ...? I got faith and a pantheon before I'd settled my opening city when I did my Polynesia head to the new world game.
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Jul 24, 2013 20:23
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Varjon posted:His city did kill one unit per turn basically, and he was smart enough to march around the mountains and take my archers from behind, and to block landing spots with pikemen. In retrospect I should have concentrated my galleases a little more strongly from the get-go, but yeah, I was basically throwing triremes at it towards the end to get the city before all my archers were killed. What was the city defense before you took it? He's exposed to 6 galleases, you should drop that in 3 turns max unless he's got insane defense or something.
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Jul 25, 2013 00:38
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isndl posted:For the Ancient and Classical eras, he's fine. Starting in Medieval where Civil Service farms should be kicking in, he's going to start stalling. Two of those Citruses are sitting on jungle, meaning he loses food (or the science from University) if he puts plantations down. He's got good diversity for trade routes, but it's frankly not a powerhouse science city like he is looking for. It's a good production city, a potentially good trade route city (can't guarantee this without seeing how the rest of the world looks), and if he was really ballsy he could settle on the Deer to be a trade city with Petra, but it's got nothing to make it shine as a science city. His early start is pretty good as he has a 3 food source and a 2 food 1 production source. He's going to need a trade route going back in to his capital for food later on but that's fine. He's playing on price so he probably doesn't even need to build improvements past getting a copy of each luxury. He'll be fine. It's also good to practice different terrains and see what they do and not just quit every time it's not a perfect start. Unless you're in tundra, then you can quit. Someone asked earlier what makes a good start: Salt!!!!!
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Jul 25, 2013 13:34
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Speedball posted:Some of the reformation beliefs in Piety are so strong that you may want to reconsider. The AI is programmed to often go Piety first, before Liberty or Tradition, and religion is always first-come, first-serve, so if you still want to go Tradition, you might want to consider not going full Tradition until later in the game. The finisher in tradition is awesome, never avoid going full tradition if you're putting stuff in there. On my immortal game I just finished up I went full tradition and was second to get a reformation belief. Hieronymous Alloy posted:I play emperor/marathon on huge maps and like liberty, if only because the early Great Engineer lets me snag wonders I wouldn't be able to grab otherwise. I've been playing a long-running coastal empire game with England and liberty + exploration together give each new city +4 hammers right at the start, which really helps get things rolling. It's still possible to go somewhat wide and maintain a science lead, you just have to prioritize science buildings ASAP in every city and choose good locations for each city. I view the great person policy to be pretty bad. It's a few hundred hammers for you. Ideally with tradition you'd have a big enough capital to hard build the same wonder if it's important. Gort posted:Thing is, going wide, Liberty doesn't really have all that much to recommend it. An extra hammer per city isn't much, one happiness per city is okay until you realise your size 30 Tradition mega-capital is giving you 15 free happiness. I also find Liberty lands me with money problems a lot more often since small cities are less profitable to link up with roads and garrisons cost you upkeep. The extra hammer per city and 5% building building (heh) is the best policy out of liberty. The problem with liberty is that generally speaking going wide with tradition is better than going wide with liberty (but slower) if you can manage your happiness. I just finished up a standard continents immortal game as france. Won a culture victory on turn 334 or something (game crashed when I hit replay) without ever having been to war and built 4 cities the whole game. I started on my own island that was not connected by shallow waters (polynesia found me eventually). I started next to salt and wheat so after moving my settler a turn I jumped out the gates pretty quick and was able to grab stonehenge to get a religion and eventually get the tourism reformation belief. I thought things were going to go downhill when nobody else picked freedom but I was already crushing the tourism game so it didn't particularly matter. Managed to set up some hotels and then research/scientist/oxford myself to internet and airports with a great engineered CN tower that boosted my tourism from 100 to 600 over the course of 10 - 20 turns or something.
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Jul 25, 2013 18:20
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Guildencrantz posted:Care to explain how you do this? Like many others, I'm struggling to succeed with a wide empire, I'd love some tips. I don't usually do it, because I hate playing wide, generally speaking. You'll need religion for a happiness crutch. The idea behind it is that tradition gives the same 1 happiness for every city that liberty does (once your cities hit 10 pop), no maintenance on garrisons, and an empire wide 15% food. The empire wide liberty bonuses are 1 happiness for connections 1 culture and then the much smaller 5% less unhappiness and a general reduction in culture costs. Traditions empire wide bonuses are better, it's just harder to get off the ground. Especially on higher difficulties when all the land you want may be gone quickly.
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Jul 25, 2013 19:07
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Palleon posted:Thanks, that makes sense. I knew influence mattered for cultural victory, but I never put it together with the ideology influence, or why there were even different levels. If you go in to the culture screen you can look at how impacted people are. I think it's where it says dissidents or content or whatever, hovering over that will tell you how much people are pushing on whom. It will say like France 3 torches for freedom, Songhai 2 autocracy symbols that I don't remember off the top of my head, Spain 1 autocracy doohicky, Polynesia 3 Hammer and sickles for order.
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Jul 25, 2013 21:05
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Tulip posted:So i play with humans and that is 99% of the explanation for my preference for Liberty. This plum doesn't make sense. If you need to construct a 5,000 hammer military it will take a 250 production/turn civ 20 turns to do it whether it's from 10 (25 ppt) cities or 2 (125ppt). But liberty generally will get you more hammers anyway. Liberty cannot keep up with Traditions 15% food growth. Additionally Monarchy gives more happiness so tradition should yield a higher happiness cap on growth as well. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Why not free Hagia Sophia? This is one of my favorite uses of that engineer. I just envision him building a building, going inside and finding God and telling everyone about how awesome it was.
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Jul 25, 2013 22:43
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