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Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

whatever7 posted:

How come the last two South Korean disasters were both boat sinking? Was there any older major boat sinking accident from either Korea?

Department store collapsed in the 90s that killed 500+.

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Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Onion Knight posted:

Are... are you sure you went to South Korea? On Earth?
I've lived and worked in SK for the last few years. The old palaces here are awesome, but unfortunately mostly restorations thanks to the Japanese smashing up everything while they were occupying (see some Important Intangible Cultural Properties instead).
The food culture is okay, especially outside of Seoul, but can't really hold a candle to the rest of Asia. The drinking culture is great if you like to get really drunk all the time.

Also congratulations on drinking the correct amount of Soju (ie: not enough) because a Soju hangover is not something I'd wish on anyone.


Anyway, all of my friends here are early-20s to early-30s and exactly zero of them are in favor of reunification. The only people I know who are even sympathetic to the idea are my girlfriend's parents, because there's a branch of her grandmother's family still in the north. Even they are quick to point out that it would wreck the economy. Really, every day that passes means there's fewer people around that actually lived in a unified Korea, and fewer people that are willing to entertain the idea of reunification. I think, frankly, the window has passed.
It's worth noting, too, that the North has been sending barely-competent spies to SK for years, as well as state-sponsored terrorist agents (like with Korean Air Flight 858) with the understanding that they'll get caught. So now, for the few Northerners that do make it to the South, they're universally distrusted. Combine that with almost no useful modern-world skills, they end up working as farmhands, diner cooks, or prostitutes and barely eke by. Basically trading their lovely life in the North for a lovely life in the South.

I think someone mentioned it in the thread before, and they were definitely on the money: if the North collapses tomorrow, the South will probably - at best - do a bunch of hand-wringing and make some token gestures, but there's no way in hell they'd open the borders. It'd mean China gets saddled with 24 million starving people without any real assets, and a gigantic pain in the rear end territory dispute with an American-backed South Korea.

Reunification doesn't mean the South has to open the borders to mass migration immediately. It would make a lot more sense to maintain the DMZ as an internal border and run the North as defacto colony for the next few decades.

Letting the Chinese set up a Korean "Autonomous" zone would be politically untenable.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Onion Knight posted:



*this won't work either because the only people who actually watch k-pop are lonely white people and older korean perverts

What the hell kind of bullshit is this? I teach at a Korean High School so I know that this is laughably untrue.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010


The government is melting down like you wouldn't believe. The country has basically been ruled for the past four years by President Park's friend who sunk her claws into her 30 years ago by convincing her that she could channel the spirit of her dead mother. Nancy Reagen, eat your heart out, this poo poo is crazy!

The country is going nuts over this. The media is throwing around accusations that this cult leader was basically running Park’s flagship culture program and in charge of hundreds of millions in spending, and that's the tip of the iceberg. She's apparently had access to all classified documents.

These rumors were always there since the 80s but no one believed. It's like America waking up to find out that Obama really was a secret Muslim all along, or the Labour party discovering that Harold Wilson really was a Soviet spy.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Vagabundo posted:

If there's one thing that the Koreans get right, aside from their awesome cuisine (bibimbap supremacy), it's protests.

I work near the big Government Center in Sejong City and there are protestors outside it all the time.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Phlegmish posted:

So, will this topple her, or just make her unelectable in 2017?

Term limit. she can't run again, unless I majorly misunderstood something.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

nelson posted:

Just before this story hit, she was trying to get a bill through that would allow the president to run multiple terms. I guess that's not going to happen now.

As I remember it, that bill would not apply to the current president.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

nelson posted:

The article I read was short on details. What's the best English language news source for Korean news?

I usually go here

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

fishmech posted:

There were plenty of leftists who would prefer the south to be part of a unified Korea under the North's rule in the old days, particularly during the various southern dictatorships. That started to ebb away when democracy finally set in and general South Korean living standards really improved while the North started to crater, but there's still going to be some of the same old guard around now who want a dear leader.

Wasn't a leftist congressman arrested and convicted for plotting with the north a couple of years ago.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010
Moon pledges to raise the defense budget from 2.4% of GDP to 2.9%

http://m.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20170718000936#cb

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Juffo-Wup posted:

First, it's pretty hosed up to imagine that the US has the right to simply invade whatever place they want. Second, if you catch yourself thinking that the people of North Korea really would have been better off under a (second) US military occupation, it's worth asking yourself exactly what evidence exists for that belief.

How well South Korea has turned out.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

WarpedNaba posted:

Trump can't start a war by declaring it through a tweet, I presume.

When he was making his tweets about transgender people in the military, the Pentagon was terrified he was doing exactly that.

Unfortunately. The President has the power to unilaterally attack any nation on Earth.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Paradoxish posted:

I don't understand what point you're trying to make here. North Korea has sunk an ROKN ship in the relatively recent past and the response was deescalation. They've shelled an ROK military installation and the response was deescalation. If the US launches an air strike against North Korea, the thing that Kim Jong-un is going to want more than anything else is peaceful deescalation. The problem is that he's also probably going to need to risk some kind of limited military response to keep his own political position stable.

I arrived in the ROK in 2009. Korea has changed over the last decade. I really doubt that the South will just sit back and take it the next time the North attacks a ship or an island. They will retaliate in kind.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Conspiratiorist posted:

It's literally impossible.

Read up on the Indus water levels. Pakistan is either going to collapse, or go to war with India. This is inevitable. It is hosed.

I'd like to learn more about this. Are you talking about climate change induced drought causing famine and lack of drinkable water?

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010
School just finished an air raid drill and an F16 flew right over ahead, lower than I've ever seen. Creepy

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

maskenfreiheit posted:

You're in Seoul?

Sejong, 100-150 meters from the Government Complex

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010
You can't win an ABM race with a real world power because they can just build more missiles, more cheaply than you can build interceptors. But is that true with North Korea? Surely the economic disparity means we can build more interceptors than they can build ICBMs. We just need to put a system like Brilliant Pebbles in orbit.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

brockan posted:

That's what I've been wondering too. NK watchers say that a US military strike would take weeks of buildup, including a mass evacuation of Seoul and a much larger military buildup. But NK has said that that they will strike if they see any signs that the US is planning to attack, and these would be clear signs.

In which case, I'm not betting against the possibility that Trump says "gently caress the evacuations and gently caress being fully prepared" and launches some sort of attack before proper preparation is made.

Call in one of the Ohio Class Cruise Missile Boats to port for repairs. Violate treaty by converting the cruise missiles to nuclear warheads. Send it out to the Sea of Japan, launch a 154 warhead, nap of the earth, first strike with no warning. Unlike an attack with ICBMs, this has no chance of being misinterperted by Russian/Chinese warning systems as a strike on them.

Not advocating this, since I millions would die including me. But it would be one way to pull off surprise.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

TheRat posted:

There's no reliable way to intercept ICBMs

That's why you have to build a lot more interceptors than the enemy has missiles, which makes an arms race with a major economic power unwinnable. North Korea is not a major eocnomic power.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Ynglaur posted:

Showing Russia we can't be trusted with nuclear treaties is a poor exchange. A nuclear war on the Korean peninsula would be horrible, but Russia and the US could end the human race.

Lets just all hope that things settle into some kind of peaceful steady state.

Haven't the Russians recently violated the intermediate ballistic missile treaty in Europe?

Also, didn't that boat already sail when W. Bush violated the ABM treaty?

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Mulva posted:

In retrospect giving a gently caress about Communism was the stupidest thing the United States ever did, and boy howdy was that a long list to top.
South Korea Simulates Attack on North Korea’s Nuclear Site After Test
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/north-korea-claims-h-bomb-test-experts-urge-trump-talks-n798431

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

OhFunny posted:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ab0d_story.html


China and Russia are gonna be livid if we redeploy nukes to South Korea.

Well the Chinese should have thought about reigning the North in before things got this far. This is a very predictable escalation. It's not a surprise.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Burt Sexual posted:

When does Saudi Arabia get their first nuke?

IIRC, Pakistan promised to sell them some if Iran goes nuclear.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Grouchio posted:

"Men have lived on the slopes of Volcanoes for centuries, and they have slept well at night. We can do the same thing." - Some guy on another forum I talked to.

Also the aforementioned ICBM is being moved toward the NK West Coast, and will probably be used for show (NK Founding Day is this Saturday)

Eventually those volcanoes blow up and kill everybody though...

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

whatever7 posted:

I can't determine how crazy Kim is until I get a clarification on the execution method he used on his uncle.

He had his half brother assassinated with nerve gas in an busy international airport! That's literal Bond villain stuff.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010
Got a ticket to the Men's Half Pipe Final on Feb 14th.

Got a love motel in Gangneung, the 13th, triple the normal price at 180,000 Won.

My wife just got me train tickets at the station. This means I am one of the lucky ones, because the pecularaties of Korean geography and calendar are going to absolutely gently caress over thousands of foreigners. (For context I've lived here for 8 years)

First of all, if you go on Bookings.com or whatever app you like and put in Pyeongchang you are going to be offered a pension (Konglish for cabin) in the mountain near a small village named Pyeongchang in the middle of nowhere. It would literally take you 10 hours by bus to get to the main Olympic stadium from there.

I actually accidently booked one of these, but realized my mistake in a couple of minutes and canceled for free. Then I managed to get a ratty looking love motel room close to the Gangneung train station. Lots of foreigners with no experience with Korea are going to find themselves in random mountain cabins in the middle of nowhere.

Then I bought a train ticket to Pyeongchang on the 13th, but I shouldn't have done that. I needed to get one for Gangneung instead. That's easy to fix, just go down to the station and exchange. It's the train back on the 14th that was the problem. The 14th-18th are the Lunar New Year. And train tickets on those days, only go on sale at 9am KST on January 17th. KTX tickets then sell out within half an hour nation wide. This is not something generally known to foreign tourists, who are going to show up and not be able to get train tickets. What's worse, is that even if you have already purchased the Olympics KTX pass, for those five days you have to go on line and reserve specific seats for those days. So, there are alot of people who will show that think they have tickets, but won't.

Also, very few people in Gangwando speak English, so it's going to be hard for foreigners to get around in general. At least the signs all have English on them.

https://www.koreaexpose.com/korails-pyeongchang-olympic-discrimination/

quote:

until the Pyeongchang Winter Olympics open on Feb. 9, another issue is getting foreign visitors worked up. This time, it’s ticket bookings for the new KTX (high speed rail) line that connects Incheon International Airport, Seoul and key new stations in the Olympic zone.

The culprit? South Korea’s Lunar New Year public holiday period, which falls on Feb. 16. The Lunar New Year and autumn Harvest Festival holidays are notorious for transport overload, with trains pre-booked up at lightning speed and highways blocked with bumper-to-bumper traffic as South Koreans head out of Seoul to visit families in the provinces. Korail, South Korea’s national railway operator, runs special pre-booking periods for these periods: This year, the Lunar New Year period is Feb. 14 – 18, for which booking opens on Jan. 17.

The problem is that this busy travel period falls bang in the middle of the Olympics, and foreigners who have already purchased five- or seven-day Pyeongchang Korail Passes are not happy about still being unable to get tickets for Feb. 14 to 18. (Pyeongchang Korail Passes are supposed to allow unlimited train travel during a fixed term but its holders still must make advance booking in order to secure seats.)

A member of staff at Korail’s hotline (1599-7777) answered, in English, that online reservations for Feb. 14-18 journeys would be available 4pm South Korean local time on Jan. 17 on the English-language version of https://www.letskorail.com or from 9-11am at railway stations nationwide on the same day.

But online booking via a special temporary public holiday booking site that exists only in Korean opens on the same day at 6am, putting non-Korean speakers at a 10-hour disadvantage — an eternity in public holiday train ticket booking terms.

“Last year all the KTX seats around the country sold out in about 30 minutes, so there’s virtually zero chance of any Olympic visitors getting seats — even if you have already bought a Pyeongchang KOFAIL pass,” wrote Reddit user zaskquatch (emphasis and sarcastic acronym in original).

A media affairs official from Korail, requesting anonymity as usual, effectively admitted that Korail’s decision to only run a Korean version of the temporary booking site was in order to give priority to South Koreans traveling during the holiday period.

“It happens to coincide with the Olympic period this time, but we have to put people traveling because of the public holiday first,” he said. The official added that standing tickets may still be available for those who miss out on the chance to book a seat.

Elsewhere, Korail’s English language site shows signs of international confusion. Visitors purchasing a Pyeongchang Korail Pass are forced to select their nationality from a drop-down list of countries that includes only 97 of the world’s 195-odd states, adds at least two defunct ones (Yugoslavia and Zaire), and misspells many more.

On Korail’s English-language Q&A pages, 38 puzzled and angry inquiries date back to Jan. 5. Among them was a message from “Olympic Spectator,” who wrote,

“Foreigners are spending thousands of dollars and we will be left in the dust. Korail is just opening themselves to a class action lawsuit for damages based on discrimination. As a Korean American, I am embarrassed such travesty is raising its ugly head when all the eyes of the world are focusing on the Olympics. Shame on you Korail. Your actions are truly repugnant.”

Meanwhile, YouTube user Amy Moncure pointed out that foreign credit cards cannot be used at some railway stations in the Olympic zone, further undermining South Korea’s claims to be a hub of smart technology.

Transportation woes come in the wake of a widely reported accommodation problems involving hotels and other properties in the Pyeongchang and nearby Gangneung area.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010
Hospital fire kills more than 30. :(

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/deadly-hospital-fire-south-korea-sejong-hospital-miryang-today-2018-01-26/

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Baronjutter posted:

I remember only like a year ago there was a deadly fire that killed a bunch of olds in a nursing home in korea as well, I remember being really mad because it described the whole thing in detail and it was an absolute inexcusable failure in the very basics of both fire safety and nursing care.

Unless you're in a large public building built after 2010 this doesn't exist, and even then it's iffy.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Paradoxish posted:

A US ship involved in this is going to be attacked at some point. North Korea (probably) sunk an ROKN ship just for shits and giggles in the middle of a joint exercise with the US.

That was to prove Kim Jong Un was a badass. He was young and untested and that ship was sunk to prove to the military he had what it takes.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Warbadger posted:

Pretty much. They weren't at war and they had no reason to think that anyone was going to torpedo them. If they even detected the torpedo in third baffles they'd have had very little time to figure out what it was and report it.

They fight naval battles over that line relatively often. No RoK ship is going to think that.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Willo567 posted:

So if Bolton is placed in the White House, should we kiss our asses goodbye?

We're probably only going to have one big war and Pompeo wants one with Iran. So, it depends who wins the behind the scenes battle for Trump's ear. Maybe Mattis will try to play them off each other.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

The North has always required American withdrawal in return for a treaty, so I'm skeptical.

Even if they do sign a treaty, how does that materially change things? Will they stop building nukes? No. Will they draw down the number of soldiers on the DMZ? No. Will they stop aggressively patroling the maratime border? No. Will they stop selling missiles to middle eastern countries and counterfitting US currency? No. So, what exactly does it accomplish accept good PR for both parties.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Thump! posted:

The key difference is that Obama and Bush sent the officials there. Pompeo did this without Trump's knowledge.

Wait, really?

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Fojar38 posted:

Wouldn't this just be madman theory? Something which seems to have been until recently successfully deployed by, among others, Kim Jong-Un?

Madman theory is taking advantage of your opponent by pretending to be insane.

Actually being insane is not the same thing.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Kthulhu5000 posted:

That's kind of the crux, and the conflict, behind how China sees North Korea and the US sees it. The US has always been pretty dogmatic around wanting regime change and reform, while China (being nearer to North Korea geographically and politically) has probably been more open to just giving up the charade and engaging with North Korea as it is, human rights warts and all.

So if China has basically sealed a preliminary deal with North Korea for aid, investment, and protection in exchange for giving up their nukes and engaging in a program of political and economic reforms (with the current regime staying in power indefinitely through some "transitionary emergency period" justification or whatever)...why would the current elite in North Korea reject that?

They can only gain, especially if the alternative is that they potentially embarrass and piss China off while that country is trying to show off its diplomatic and geopolitical chops on the world stage. For all we know, the ruling elite may have told Kim to go to Beijing and prostrate himself to Xi exactly to make the above happen.
China explicitly backing up NK with an alliance would make things worse long term not better, because it allows Un to be more reckless via conventional means. He can shell border islands, and engage in running naval battles in the East Sea because any attempt to retaliate would drag the Chinese in.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

J33uk posted:

Soooo short of a hilarious heel turn did the Korean war just actually end?

They've pledged no more war 3 times before after big summits (1992, 2000 and 2008 IIRC). 4th times the charm?

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Chomskyan posted:

Lmao, South Korea was basically a US colony run by former Japanese collaborators. The US and the former imperial government had already massacred over 100,000 people in the south by the time Kim Il-sung "invaded" (except not really, because you can't invade your own country)

The North had plenty of japanese collaborators in their government. They basically kept the entire propaganda arm intact and had them replace the words Japan with Korea.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Rent-A-Cop posted:

I think if Russia starts rolling armored divisions down to the 38th parallel someone might notice.

Seriously is this what you got? "What if a Russia/China/DPRK super-axis of almost communism sneak invades Seoul?"

The only reason the DPRK exists is because the Chinese army intervened in the war, as did the Soviet air force.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010
Calling it a revolution is over selling it a bit.

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Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Chomskyan posted:

That's what the activists call it, and I think they're right to. But feel free to be an annoying pedant

I've lived in the ROK for eight and a half years, so I know what I'm talking about. You were completely capable of going around, living your normal life at the time if you wanted. A revolution should be highly disruptive in order to earn the title.

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