BSS 2015 Chat Thread - Many Words Typed About A Dying Corporation In A Niche Hobby

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > BSS 2015 Chat Thread - Many Words Typed About A Dying Corporation In A Niche Hobby

«‹›5 »

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

I just finished reading Unlimited's 'Discover: Civil War' and while the event wasn't as awful as I anticipated, the last comic in the series was Avengers: The Initiative #1 which was just the worst. The whole thing is just :effort:

in writing - they have a superhero army in training but they need to show it's serious so someone needs to get washed out, and they accomplish this by doing a 'test' of everyone's powers. Girl with guns, cool - sweet robot killing, now let's test the guy whose power we know is manifesting people's deepest, darkest fears. Let's do that by having him manifest hers - not against a regular person's or anything like that - if I'm wanting to see someone behave completely irrationally because they are being confronted by the thing they are afraid of most, I want them so heavily armed that their codename reflects it. Oh wow! She went completely out of control in response! We better surgically strip her powers and kick her out - not the guy whose power is to make people irrationally and probably dangerously crazy. That's how we roll in the proper super-military, scrubs.

It was easily the worst issue of the almost one hundred issues of that entire event.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2015 02:27

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 18, 2024 10:55

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Yeah. Treat them like a Director's Commentary on a DVD. It's really interesting to get a behind-the-scenes look at how all the pieces come together, and it makes you appreciate all the work that actually went into producing the book, but if you do your first read with them 'on' it's basically too much noise for the story to coalesce by itself. I read them by themselves after I finished the story, flicking back every now and then when they referred to art or some specific detail in the scene.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2015 12:53

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Rhyno posted:

Someone posted it on his Facebook last year and he deleted it and said he's discussed it enough but I can't find any discussions anywhere.

He didn't say there were any discussions to find. He said he'd discussed it enough.

# ¿ Jan 13, 2015 01:17

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

A Tin Of Beans posted:

How are we all forgetting that there's a character named Man-thing? That's the best awful name by far.

I would counter that and say that Man-Bat is actually even worse, especially with his wife She-Bat.

# ¿ Jan 14, 2015 00:34

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Pretty sure he in-universe abandoned the alias after he was framed for Iron Fist's murder when their series wrapped up in the late 80s.

# ¿ Jan 14, 2015 06:44

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

It wasn't as good as #4.

# ¿ Jan 15, 2015 01:49

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

WickedHate posted:

His views of justice and morality weren't that bad, nor was his dedication to never allowing injustice. "Never compromise" isn't a bad creed to live by, for a super hero.

ITT someone posts that a character who describes homosexuals as filth and employs indiscriminate torture as an information gathering technique as not "that bad".

On your last point, there's a reason he has tears in his eyes as he begs Manhattan to kill him to protect the new order.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 00:18

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

WickedHate posted:

I always saw that as him crying because it was inevitable and he couldn't stop them, so he was yelling at him to get it over with.

I mean that I didn't take it just as he was crying because he had failed to save the day and was going to die, but because he knew he couldn't compromise, but also that it was necessary. They weren't tears of 'woe is me', but tears welling up from an internal struggle to reconcile his fanatic beliefs of rightness and his drive to enforce them with being convinced that Ozymandias was right in that exposing the wrong that he had done would make it even worse.

He had already mailed his journal off. Nobody else knew about that. He didn't have to make a scene and walk out - he could've just bided his time and exposed them. He knew he had to compromise, but dying to protect the secret was as far as he could get himself.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 01:45

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

WickedHate posted:

He wasn't convinced at all. I can't imagine a single part of him thinking, "Welp, Adrian was right!". He couldn't let it stand and knew Manhattan would kill him for it, and Adrian would get away with his best friend as an accomplice.

If he wasn't convinced then why did he make a scene and storm out. All he had to do was lie to them, take the information he learned back to New York, collaborate it with his journal that he had already dead-dropped, and the whole thing would have collapsed because it was contingent on everyone there keeping quiet.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 02:22

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

WickedHate posted:

Because he was pissed the others were going to keep quiet. He's very black and white; everyone else going along with is a betrayal of him and what he stands for. And without him dead, his word means very little. The only reason his journal has a chance of making a difference is because he 'went missing". Alive, he's just going to be perceived as a paranoid conspiracy theorist.

He's shown throughout the comic being patient and methodical. His time in prison is spent waiting calmly for the opportunity to escape. He very rarely acts on base emotion - his discussion of the kidnapped girl with the psychologist makes it explicit that it was an event where the "human" side of him shuts down basically out of necessity. He is black and white, which is why I think the grey in allowing Adrian's bomb to become a catalyst for a better world troubles him so much. His journal is a paranoid conspiracy without the details of what's revealed in the arctic- it's literally "in the crank pile" - with him "dead" (really just 'missing') it's just a bunch of unconnected leads between Pyramid and a bomb.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 03:17

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

There are degrees to the awfulness with which people will inflict upon another, and while people will contextualise their awfulness as justified they don't necessarily extend that contextualisation to others even if it's in the same degree to a third party.

The easiest way to understand Comedian's stance is that being an amoral Blackwater-style mercenary for your government doesn't mean you automatically agree with 9/11.

Random Stranger posted:

"Very, very grey" is being polite. He destablized the world, pushed it to the brink of destruction, and then killed millions of people to fix it. It was ego stroking and in the end he was focused on profiting monetarily from it. Veidt was the biggest monster in a book full of them, but he placed his evil behind easy to swallow justifications. Justifications which don't hold together when carefully examined.

The only thing I really hated about the movie is it entirely removes the conversation at the end where Veidt reaches out to Manhattan for reassurance that he made the right decisions "in the end" and Manhattan totally destroys him by saying "nothing ever ends" before vanishing off the Earth.

In the movie Niteowl gives the equivalent speech, at much greater length, but it's stupid because Veidt doesn't respect him in the first place and he can't speak with the gravitas that being an atomic god that exists across time can, so it's just assumed that because he's the protagonist the viewer will understand Veidt feels bad about it as the final shot of Veidt standing awkwardly in the ruins of his base shows he has been defeated in victory, despite the next scenes demonstrating the unity he's brought. In the comics the last thing you see of Veidt is him facing a wall looking over his shoulder apprehensively where Manhattan was, obviously tortured, but significantly it doesn't play up a sense of this moment being his defeat - the whole point is that his victory will slowly eat at him for the rest of his life.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 07:34

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

zoux posted:

Oh that reminds me I saw that Agents of SMASH got added to Netflix. Any good?

My coworker said it was the worst cartoon he's ever watched for his kids and it's mostly reality-tv asides where the hulks share their feelings with a camera.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 21:30

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Lurdiak posted:

Spider-man continued the trend with guest appearances by ... Punisher

Does it count as a guest appearance when Punisher is a Spider-man character in the first place?

# ¿ Jan 23, 2015 02:17

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Like that even begins to stick out in a team that's hosted a Russian with literal iron curtain, Japanese with nuclear powers, an african who makes rain, two Native Americans with the incredible powers of athleticism, and an Australian who teleports by surfing, et el.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2015 01:56

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Shouldn't that say *DIFFICURTY OF PRONOUNCING "R'S" IN JAPANESE RANGUAGE?

# ¿ Jan 27, 2015 21:40

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Edge & Christian posted:

I know you're going to say "some of those are pretty obscure", but the list of Black Electric Guys is literally "Two Dudes and some off-brand versions that only appeared in cartoons, a parody character from an indie book Mark Waid did, and Storm". And if we're including Storm, we might as well include all of the permutations of Thor and Shazam out there.

Here, I'll even give you an extra Black Lightning character. Livewire from Harbinger. She's a black lady who controls electricity. Even given that, basically "Lightning Lad and all the permutations" is more or less equal to "Black Lightning and all the permutations" in terms of character and issue count.

You're missing Jamie Foxx's Electro, Miles Morales, and depending on how strictly you want to interpret "Black", Thunder Fall.

If you're including Storm you have to include Asari as well, but I'd argue Thor should be included anyway since he is explicitly lightning-related (though does not have electrical powers) whereas Storm's powers are more broad - that also brings in Thunderer. Shazam can do lightning, but he often uses it to hurt Superman and therefore it's magical and not electrical.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2015 09:17

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Edge & Christian posted:

But yeah, if you want to stretch the definition of "lightning powers" beyond all definition then you are right, pretty much all black heroes have lightning powers.

Well I wasn't arguing that, and the argument is always about electrical powers.

You seem pretty defensive about me just mentioning some characters you missed in your reductiveness.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2015 00:45

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

I'm just used to it all being directed at you.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2015 00:52

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

I always just use graphic novel to refer to trade paperbacks because people who don't read comics intuitively understand 'novel' as a long format but trade paperback is impenetrable jargon.

# ¿ Feb 11, 2015 03:01

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Fascist themes pop up a lot in Moore's work because he did the bulk of his most recognisable work during Thatcher's England. It's mostly just a reflection of the political attitudes he saw in his own country at the time, and - especially in V For Vendetta - where he thought those attitudes would take the world, which was into intolerance and fascism. Rorschach is intended to be morally questioned and his attitudes to others are intended to be repugnant to the reader because otherwise he would actually just be a regular Batman-style vigilante. It's a really long form discussion of do the ends justify the means, and at the end of it Moore unquestionably looks down and says "no".

Watchmen is also not overrated.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2015 12:54

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Gavok posted:

But Orson Welles didn't respect Transformers! It couldn't have been good!

It's hard to work on a generation's Citizen Kane when you literally invented the concept.

# ¿ Feb 15, 2015 07:51

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

TwoPair posted:

Characters referencing the insanity of their own world. Not just in the Deadpool 4th wall breaking sense, but stuff like every time someone mentions "Man we sure do die and come back a lot" (I think there was some comic that particularly made a reference to this in regards to the X-Men)

The worst of this was in Incredible Hulk where 90s cool dude Rick Jones loses his girlfriend and hogs an entire comic just for his many adventures visiting Doctor Strange and the Fantastic Four to have emotional breakdowns at their houses begging for them to help him bring her back from the dead because they've come back from the dead.

To boot, hilariously ham-handed pop culture references by a professional hermit in his fifties.

She ends up coming back from the dead, of course.

# ¿ Feb 17, 2015 20:24

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

It's in the Silmarillion. They aren't constructs (as in Middle-Earth evil cannot create) or angels that chose to fall (because these are Sauron and Balrog-level entities), either way - they are a soldier race that was bred out of corrupted elves in the distant past. It's hard to say if they're just evil by nature because within the world they only exist around and in the service of a volcanic locus of pure evil.

# ¿ Feb 19, 2015 02:33

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Doctor Spaceman posted:

The idea of a Batman-themed Metroidvania is really solid and there are moments in Blackgate where it actually works, they're just so few and far between that it ends up being tedious and disappointing.

Doesn't that bring us full circle since that's exactly what Asylum was anyway?

# ¿ Mar 15, 2015 07:29

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Cardboard Box A posted:

What was the thought process behind this

It was pretty much "gently caress gently caress gently caress I have to draw a foot gently caress gently caress gently caress" and like four hours of procrastination drawing.

# ¿ Mar 15, 2015 10:37

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

I would like to work in comics but DC keep rejecting my script saying I need to rewrite the bit where Aquaman wets himself to temporarily boost his powers.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2015 06:32

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Bottom Liner posted:

Those work great sequentially, but the whole point of superhero comics is that they triumph over fears and low points. The original depicted that low point, just like Knightfall did with the iconic back-breaker. It makes their triumph mean something in the end.

Except the part where in the original she's in her current threads and clearly helpless, so it does not depict a low point which is subsequently triumphed over - it references a famous low point that was triumphed over but does so in a way that inadvertently suggests that actually nothing has changed for her and she's still the victim not the victor of it.

# ¿ Mar 19, 2015 05:47

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Bottom Liner posted:

The biggest irony of all is that a lot more people were exposed to such a "triggering" image than would have been if the drat thing had just been released normally anyways.

The problem wasn't the art, it was the context.

Bottom Liner posted:

Boycott it, don't call for censoring and suppressing art.

But you said protesting in support of censorship is censorship!

boycott
/ˈbɔɪkɒt/
verb
1.
(transitive) to refuse to have dealings with (a person, organization, etc) or refuse to buy (a product) as a protest or means of coercion: to boycott foreign produce

# ¿ Mar 19, 2015 07:06

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Bottom Liner posted:

Just going to point out how hung up you guys got on one word in this post and spent the whole page arguing semantics. Whatever you want to call it, being offended is part of viewing art sometimes and I don't think creators should have to be so PC just because they're scared of offending someone. Again, I'm talking big picture and the precedence this sets. I'm done talking about this now, but I appreciate your efforts at dissecting my posts. Also, I'm far from being a conservative and it's hysterical I was called one

People are hung up on one word and arguing semantics because your entire stance so far is predicated on a fundamental misunderstanding of what the word means and its applicability to private institutions and public reception.
Creators don't have to be so PC and literally nobody is arguing with you that they should be.
This doesn't set a precedence because that word, again, doesn't mean anything like what you clearly think it does outside of a legal context.

hth bin liner

# ¿ Mar 19, 2015 10:53

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

WickedHate posted:

I would argue that, just not right now.

Not now Rhyno.

# ¿ Mar 19, 2015 11:20

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

al-azad posted:

Marvel responds to Wimberly's Lighten Up comic.

Wimberly responds by asking artists if the big two ever told them darken up.

Aside from that response completely missing the point then going "hey, look at how diverse we are!" it's also really stupid because the "established" skin color was ignored by literally every other artist.

It's interesting going back and reading that issue because his Melita is definitely darker and incongruous to everybody else's - and while she does match the swatch given him in the rest of the book, so do ostensibly white people and even Storm.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2015 08:15

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Actually it's about ethics in child loving.

# ¿ Mar 25, 2015 12:28

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Zachack posted:

If it was an accident why should he go to jail? How is anything made better by that? Or is this the same part of your brain that thinks Rorschach was the good guy?

There's a concept called willful negligence and a forum named Debate & Discussion.

# ¿ Mar 25, 2015 21:52

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Soonmot posted:

some kid got a letter with a sticker instead of a stamp? idgi, how does this realte to Ms Marvel or memes? Is this a meme?

lol so old

# ¿ Mar 31, 2015 11:17

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

I only trust poopjokesiknowthisguy

# ¿ Mar 31, 2015 11:59

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Are you some kind of awful opinion Head of John the Baptist.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2015 01:04

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Cynicism is the natural order. It must be enforced.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2015 02:05

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

WickedHate posted:

That era was when rap started getting good at all.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2015 03:46

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

But seriously, Hip Hop Family Tree is a great comic about an important time period in music.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2015 05:06

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 18, 2024 10:55

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Madkal posted:

Music peaked in 1996 and has been in a death spiral ever since.

I would revise that down to 1991.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2015 23:06

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > BSS 2015 Chat Thread - Many Words Typed About A Dying Corporation In A Niche Hobby

«‹›5 »