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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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Andorra posted:I don't know what you're talking about. PolitiBot 3000 is the perfect candidate who, the developers assure us, is widely appealing because it's not Donald Trump Also, it made a speech calling non-christians 'super-criminals' and posed for pictures with noted war criminal Orlando Bosch. Sure, it may irk a few commies, but think of how many moderate republicans it will win for us!* *= If we lose it's the fault of irked commies, though.
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Jun 22, 2017 23:41
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As a foreigner, it's kinda mind-bending to watch the dance of both major US parties. GOP runs a strong candidate? Democratic establishment goes "We need to lean right so we won't be left behind." GOP runs a weak bufffoon? "We need to lean right to pick up the moderate conservatives the republicans are leaving out!" Has there been any other party to repulsed by its own alleged base and ideals? It never seemed to me that the Republicans truly worried if stopping abortion and killing the government was popular with the nation at large; it was what their base wanted, so it was what they sold, and they never looked back. In contrast, the Dems seem to barely be able to wait before dropping everything that engages their own base the moment they get near elected office. I don't think I've seen any GOPer tell his crowd "hey now, getting rid of Roe v. Wade is a pipe dream.", but I can find a list of dems making GBS threads on UHC as long as my arm in under a minute. All in all, it's amazing how much "GOP policies, only 5% less cruel" has endured as the liberal playbook.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:37
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joepinetree posted:
There's a brand of person, usually found in most bureaucracies and mid-sized movements/corporations and above, that feel far better having absolute control over a shitshow than having a 20% stake in a resounding success. Identifying these people and getting them out of the way is a big factor in keeping anything big vital and moving forward. A political party, a software developer, a sports team. Doesn't matter. When more of the faction's resources are spent propping up its top layer than achieving its goals, it is walking dead.
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Jul 17, 2017 05:35
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Crap, are there still even Blue Dogs left? I thought they'd been eaten alive by Tea Partiers back in 2010.
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Jul 18, 2017 03:27
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Oh. Oh, gently caress. 2016 finds a way to strike into the future with its shittiness, again.
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Jul 18, 2017 04:46
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WampaLord posted:Wow, that's sort of insulting towards black people, isn't it? You think they wouldn't vote as much for a white president who actually cared about their issues? Come on, now! Hillary won big against Trump in her own group, white women! Didn't she? ...oh.
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Jul 18, 2017 21:12
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joepinetree posted:Yeah, it's centrist democrats who both demand purity and who make class versus race a thing. This. It would even be somewhat excuseable if their concern for minority welfare was genuine and informed strong action. But no; it's increasingly clear that they go that route because it is easy and has no political cost. Just wear a ribbon on your lapel, tweet a few catchphrases and feel-good stuff now and again, and boom, you've 'reached' a lot of people while just pissing off the usual cranks that would never have voted for you anyway. Now, talk about higher wages, affirmative action, gerrymandering, war on drugs, single payer and such and you are kicking a lot of hornet's nests, disturbing structures that keep a lot of people who are nominally on your side powerful/rich. "Alright, I'm for trans bathroom rights because my nephew is bi, I guess, but I'm not paying anyone 15 bucks an hour! We're all entrepreneur's in this family!"
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Jul 19, 2017 17:28
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Jaxyon, have you ever considered that there is a different between POC primary voters and POC general election voters? One group is not nearly as invested in personal party narratives and "It's X's candidate's turn now" Donna Brazile establishment crap.
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Jul 20, 2017 00:16
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I admit it, guys, it was me. Hillary was scratching the floor as I dragged her down the hallway, saying "I have to go tour rust-belt states and get in touch with people who feel forgotten by DC! It's what I care about and live for!" But no, I just grabbed her by the shoulder pands and went "No way. You're going to take some pics smiling with Henry Kissinger and like it, granny. The go on about Nancy Reagan being an AIDS hero instead of a silent accomplice of a shameful neglect. It will accelerate the contradictions and bring about FULL COMMUNISM, like we leftists want! And if you ever bring up that socialist crap about health care and poo poo that's in your program in a speech or debate, I'll have Chelsea shot. Keep going on about Putin, middle america cares a lot about that!" And I can't wait to do it all over again. Maybe run Chuck Schumer this time, list the whole criminalizing BDS thing as bi-partisan reaching across the aisle and getting things done.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:56
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Fulchrum posted:And yet according to you, they effortlessly ground you into the dirt, and took your lunch money. It's not like party primaries and general elections are -different- things, after all. poo poo, Trump mentioned both Universal Health Care ('We have to take care of everyone") and giving up on Iraq War-style interventionism last year, more than Hillary ever did. Lying through his teeth, sure, but it still resonated with the crowd and set him apart from the other GOP-bots. Imagine what someone who actually meant it might have achieved! The democrats are a waste, and if Fulchrum is their standard-bearer, they are beyond recycling.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:03
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This is what loving slays me. If the Democratic party had been cleaning big at the polls since 2008 with Obama/Clinton brand of promising progress but packing every position with Goldman Sachs alumni and shrugging at stuff like gerrymandering, inequality, war on drugs and so on, I'd at least be able to say "This sucks, but they know what it takes to win and grow the party, I guess." But the party has shriveled frightfully in the last 9 years. Other than Obama's re-election, there's been precious few victories. Congress seats, governorships, you name it, it's all down but campaign contributions. The party has become a bulimic that swallows cash and vomits actual power. So we end at a dumb dichotomy that somehow we can't escape. Either America really wants dumb GOP war, bigotry and inequality, in which case everyone should all just give up and head to Canada, or democrats have to actually start leaning into the stuff they say they care about before they are made completely irrelevant. Say what you will about the GOP, they've never been shy about catering to their base. Dozens of laws to limit access to abortion and welfare, to put the bibles in classroom and so on and so forth. They couldn't give two fucks about beltway journo sensibilities, they knew what their crazy base wanted and they brought it home, as much as they could as often as they could, and those who gagged or felt scruples were tossed aside. And their 'punishment' for such irreponsibility was winning the white house, both houses of congress, and having a 6-3 supreme court majority tantalizingly within reach. It's only their crazy disregard for actual governance that has kept them from achieving even more. gently caress, it was that same insane conservative zeal that prevented Obama from signing away a big chunk of those life-saving programs that liberals care so much about saving, back during the budget struggles. Had Hillary won the WH, it's pretty likely she'd be facing a similar situation, surrendering healthcare and education and welfare to please howling hicks, and being praised as a responsible adult by the Cillizas and Yglesias of the world.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:28
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Fulchrum posted:
Ahh yes, those "Hillary is way too much of a centrist!" right wing attacks against Hillary. All over Drudge and Breitbart they were, concerned about her and her conservative ways, fearing that a new Tatcher would appear on the other side of pond! You are delusional.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:35
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Fulchrum posted:I do like how you're admitting that the core component of leftism to you has absolutely nothing to do with politics or helping people, and is solely about smug contrarianism, endless bitching, and maintaining a staggering victim complex. And now you are just making things up. NO ONE in D&D ever considered Benghazi anything other than a grotesque GOP shitshow without being laughed out of the thread. Hell, back then liberals and leftists both were impressed at how she handled being grilled of it for hours and hours, and I'm including myself in that. Yes, people brought up Hillary's weak points during the primary. Being cozy with banks, being late to support LGBT rights, and more. What the hell is wrong with that? It was a PRIMARY. That said, once she won, a few people remained pissed over the party's treatment of Bernie but most everyone was pumped for Iron Abuela. Right up until the results started coming in, everyone was expecting a drat blowout. Leftists like Michael Moore were sounding the alarms back in JULY. He still agitated and tried to get out the vote like mad, but you probably think he's a loon for wanting pie-in-the-sky, actual progressive policies to be more than throwaway speech lines. Really, that -you- accuse others of a martyr complex is just rich.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:52
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Jizz Festival posted:Like every reactionary in history, you assume that the unrest is being caused by some sinister external force. If people don't think the democrats care about them, a good way to fix that would be to actually get stuff done that helps people rather than rooting out the people who are sowing dissent. Unfortunately you're stuck in this mindset that real change is impossible, or perhaps for you it's even undesirable. It kinda figures. After the "I used to consider myself a feminist, but then someone told me it's bad to hit on women during job interviews and now I'm a Youtube MRA reactionary" brand of shitbird, we were about overdue for the "I was a progressive, but then people said letting the banks run wild while selling out the safety net a bit at a time was counterproductive, so I became an America Heritage Institute shill" wave. Care to tell us how Reagan was actually too kind to the air-traffic controllers, Fulchrum? I'm sure it's on the tip of your tongue by now.
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Jul 21, 2017 06:05
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Fulchrum posted:Oh, sorry, I thought we were just throwing out things that don't correspond to reality. Help me out here, Fulchrum. Point out to me which of the events below 'don't correspond to reality'. - Obama and the Dems failed to rein in the financial apparatus in any degree after the 2008 crisis. In fact, he appointed their alumni to key positions. Repeatedly. - Hillary Clinton has good transit with the same financial elites, uses them to fund her campaigns, and makes a bundle doing speeches for them. She also refused to release the transcripts of said speeches, further reinforcing the image of her being too chummy with those she should be keeping in check. - Her campaign officers deliberately neglected blue-collar rust belt states in favor of winning over GOP moderates (were they lured in by all the juicy left-wing stuff in her program?) - She backed TPP at first, then turned on it. Not a big deal in my book, but it didn't help with her "slimy pol who will say anything" image. - She (or her staff) picked a boring nobody VP after a heated primary, saying he would deliver his state. Which he didn't.
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Jul 21, 2017 06:14
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Crowsbeak posted:Beyond Fulchrum being a troll. the other possiblity of his actions is provided in this excellent article from the LA review of Books. That was freaking masterful, Crowsbeak. Thanks for bringing it into the thread. A painful but enrichening read.
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Jul 21, 2017 06:30
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VitalSigns posted:Nitpick: Hillary won Tim Kaine's home state of Virginia Agh! Right you are. I kept thinking he was from PA for some dumb reason. I concede to Fulchrum on every point now.
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Jul 21, 2017 06:34
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El Pollo Blanco posted:I find Emmett Rensin somewhat hilarious as he derides the smugness of the American Liberal, then follows up with possibly the smuggest thing I've read in years: You are not wrong there, but it still resonates. I'm a med student who plans to go into psychiatry and love my mental health classes, and one thing that people miss in the usual "Id = bad, SuperEgo = good" reduction is that the SuperEgo is not really more rational than the other parts. It modulates your impulses based on a perception of greater society, but nothing guarantees that its perception of that society is correct, or that its modulation happens at the right level or intensity. And it is gleefuly unaware when it messes up most of the time, all too happy to blame it stwo brothers for any problems that might happen.
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Jul 21, 2017 07:08
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Fulchrum posted:So in terms of what counts for actual policy and isn't just that she didn't burst into flames at being near to those eeevil bankers, and knowing full well that leftists would take stating a political truth and construe it as a monstrous backstab to them, the only thing of substance in this list is the claim that they didn't do anything to regulate finance. Which I'm sure is why those industries spent so much work trying to destroy Dodd Frank. Sorry, Dodd what? Must be some Goldman Sach executive who was given a bonus, can't be any kind of regulation. Yawn. The Virginia screw-up was pointed out before you did, and I owned up to it. Nice meltdown anyway, though. It was an opportunity to show class in being right for a change, and you had to be an rear end. People have been posting actual quotes from financial bigshots slobbering over Hillary and pretty much admitting any populaist noises she makes are just that, pleasant noises. And it's hilarious that you dismiss everything else out of hand. How Hillary and the party ran her campaign doesn't matter? I thought 'electability' trumped (ha-ha) all. Being seen as out of touch and compromised in a year in which people were largely pissed off with the status quo all over the West (i.e Brexit, Trump even being a thing) is also not a factor worth handling? For one dismissing the article Croswbeak posted, you fit it to a T. Also, you pretty much howled into the storm a page or two ago that your political reason of being right now is to make leftists shut up. Can I feel a bit persecuted over that, honey?
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Jul 21, 2017 07:19
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Fulchrum is a mentally ill moron and we'd all be better off if you stopped engaging him Agreed. Should have stopped before seeing this, but I'm sleepless and head-achey, which is a bad combo for spotting fruitless discussions. In more worthwhile topics, have there been any local-level politicians that have made good waves recently? I remember some lady in Seattle or someplace that got elected on a ridiculously lefty platform.
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Jul 21, 2017 07:30
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Avirosb posted:Awfully quiet here about Chuck "Anti-zionism is basically the holocaust" Schumer but I guess that's a I brought it up briefly some pages back, as an example of 'centrist' bipartisan crap that is the bread and butter of the current mindset, but it got lost in the FulchrDammerung. It's actually a bit creepy. Pretty much every pol asked about First Ammendment concerns and such replies with the same canned "The US and Israel are friends. They will forever be friends" non sequitur. It's almost Hypnotoad-wrothy.
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Jul 21, 2017 15:30
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that shouldn't be opened.
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Avirosb posted:Agreed. I'm as green as they come when it comes to politics and I don't know the whole history but what goes on in Ukraine and Israel doesn't seem all that different to me. So, odds that the next Dem presidential candidate will be a "BDS is a felony" backer: 100% or 120%?
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Jul 21, 2017 15:49
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joepinetree posted:Off topic, but in terms of trying to take credit for same sex marriage nothing will ever beat the shamelessness of Andrew Sullivan, who for years attacked the legal strategy in every way possible, and then when it worked had a full on meltdown whenever he wasn't credited with its passage because he had written about same sex marriage earlier. Holy crap, this, so much. That Obama and other liberal luminaires were so quick to embrace Sullivan despite him being poo poo on so many fronts and existing to be a handbrake on anything remotely progressive was what sealed it in my mind that Obama was a joke, after his appointment of Timothy freaking Geithner.
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Jul 23, 2017 16:17
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:tbqh i don't think "single payer" goes too far enough to be a winning platform in 2018 Medicare for all, Student Loan forgiveness, $15 minimum and bringing in overseas stashed money would get pretty much everyone who isn't commenting at Breitbart pumped. First world heaçth care for all, letting people quit lovely jobs and start businesses while avoiding bankruptcy? Check. Relieving a chunk of young professionals and screwing a greedy, rotten middleman? Check. Rewarding entry-level work and boosting consumer power? Check. Bringing back looted cash and giving everyone a moral high? Check. But it'd be hard to find a billionaire to stump for it at the Convention, so it's not happening.
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Jul 24, 2017 03:39
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Crowsbeak posted:What ever happened to him? My guess is that he felt unecessary from all the freaked-out liberals stealing his schtick.
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Jul 25, 2017 04:40
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Trump's mean little trans-ban on the armed forces is just the kind of stunt that liberals love, and in fact, the only thing they can respond to, by design. It demands nothing of them other than a righteously outraged tweet or sound bite. Requires no action, no naming names of involved politicians or institutions, no burning of bridges. There's nothing they can really do, so there are no risks.
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Jul 26, 2017 19:01
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WampaLord posted:The problem is I bet you encouraged other people to vote third party as well, and some of other people lived in battleground states. "The problem is you MIGHT have done X?" I enjoy your posts both here and in other threads, but this doesn't hold up. The discourse here is wearing thin, which is a far worse thing than being 'uncivil'. Let's turn it around.
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Jul 26, 2017 19:49
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Dmitri-9 posted:Dean is at least competent. They worst of both worlds is a milquetoast centrist that is also an incompetent con artist like Robbie Mook or Mothership Strategies. Hasn't Dean become like a turbo-lobbyist for some Middle East feudal hole, though?
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Jul 30, 2017 19:02
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Fulchrum posted:And we're right back to screaming "LYING WHORE!!!!!!!!" to justify your feeling of persecution. Oh no! After 8 years of establishment dems letting wall Street skate after a big crisis, supporting charter school, trying to sign Grand Bargains with loony republicans, letting the GOP fiddle with the ACA over a hundred times in exchange for ZERO votes for it, and basically bleeding the party white ntul it's a walking skeleton, you mean there may be some resentment and distrust among the base? I better hope that all of the above happened as a result of persecuting the left. The alternative is that the DLC and the top dogs did it either because they support it, which is vile, or because they are failures, which is tragic.
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Jul 31, 2017 23:34
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Was reading a book about liberal democratic decadence today between classes, and it mentioned the former Mass. governor Deval Patrick as an example of politicians from ridiculously blue states that fell short on delivering Communism Now, and instead fell in line with financial interests and 'innovators' every time. I get home, and guess who Obama is tapping to run next election? p.s- Holy crap, he was a bigshot at Bain Capital. It'll be hilarious see the liberals scrub twitter of all the righteous Romeny jokes they did over that little vulturefest.
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Aug 2, 2017 00:01
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Iron Twinkie posted:She traveled to the Hampton's and received the blessing of some of Hillary's top donors so now she's the anointed one. Holy crap. When you think they are running out of ways to throw black/brown people in jail.... "Your kid had missed too many classes. Don't have two grand? Come with us, mister. Hey, stop resisting!" BANGBANGBANG
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Aug 2, 2017 00:17
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JeffersonClay posted:If you can't distinguish the policies of democrats and republicans, or Trump and HRC, you're a fake leftist. Much of Trump's policy is liberal policy (that is, Hillary's, Bill's and the DLC's), only done LOUD. Liberals enforce record immigrant deportations. Trump goes loud: Build the WALL! Liberals go nuts being Tough on Crime, Jailing their own base constituency out of proportion. Trump makes America's Toughest Sherrif and David Clarke his standard bearers. Liberals supply and refuel KSA's murderous dirty war. Trump actually goes there for a sword dance and orb-touching. Liberals happily fund and support charter school, paying more money for same/worse results. Trump just further starves the public system. Liberals stay curiously mum on the whole 'voter fraud' scam and gerrymandering. Trump merely names a board to turn it up to 11. It's actually creepy how much of his plan so far has been to just turbo-charge market 'common sense' or stomping around demo blind spots. You might want to read Matt Taibbi's book 'The Divide', especially the chapters about how the court system has been happily turned into a conveyor belt feeding the poor into a labyrinth of fines and jail time on any excuse, before you support adding another huge, vaguely-worded, easily-abused trapdoor under their feet.
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Aug 3, 2017 00:14
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WampaLord posted:Well, I tried, but the Trump thread has successfully defeated leftists for another day. Anything to avoid looking inwards. It will be funny when they finally get a liberal democrat in power, only to see him/her be DESTROYED by the newly overcharged deep stated secret service with leaks and subpoenas and inquiries whenever they are unhappy or just bored. Not to say that there's not a nest of creepy, shady stuff surrounding Trump and his crew, but this elevation of technocratic security spooks to the new heroes of our day and age is weird. It'll be like whistle-blowers. Gallant guardians of our freedom under Dubya, traitorous poo poo-disturbers under Obama, and now in a moral void since the existing ones either annoyed the Dem administration or turned out to be kinda creepy. Next time I'm chronically bored I might fish through some D&D threads and find people's posts about Comey during the election when he was Trump's personal Hillary-slaying hatchetman and then a few months back when he was the hero we deserve AND need.
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Aug 6, 2017 23:41
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Call Me Charlie posted:I remember people in the Trump thread unironically calling for a CIA junta to save us from Trump after the election. Well, when they weren't posting about crying all day or checking themselves into mental institutions. They likely think the same about us here, and while that is cool to keep the place from becoming a shitfest, it's still kind of sad. I don't see how any major party not just in the US but in the world now can survive without having a lot of people with their ear to the ground, spotting trends that motivate people and nurturing new leaderships that answer those demands. Not just focus polling, but actively finding the people who have taken it on and invited them to do more and get exposure.
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Aug 7, 2017 00:15
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Has any Democrat of note addressed the Charleston debacle? Or are they still triangulating and calculating how many potential voters they might alienate?
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Aug 12, 2017 17:50
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Calibanibal posted:i like how nazis literally murdered a woman and centrists cant shut up about meanie dirtbag leftists lol They literally gave the headline of the NYT to Erik loving Erikson so he could poo poo on leftists and nazis and call them both sides of the same coin. They can't stop dumping on the left even when they run to hold an activist's coffin for electoral gain. How do you flub "Hmm, one of the sides in this fight is NAZIS, I wonder who I should back...." ??
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Aug 13, 2017 15:09
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Democrazy posted:The opinion piece (which is one of several on the topic in the paper) doesn't actually mention the counter-protestors, though? It pretty much opens equating the alt-right and alt-left and saying they are both symptoms of a failure to uphold 'western values'. Erikson would be there cheering if they were chanting Ted Cruz's name instead of Trump's. Him being legitimized as a worthwhile voice in a 'liberal' paper is part of the problem.
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Aug 13, 2017 15:37
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Democrazy posted:He goes on to condemn the far right, and only the far right, for what happened yesterday. Also, the New York Time is not a liberal paper, it is a paper of record which gives its opinion section to many people of many backgrounds. Attacking them for publishing wrongthink is more fascist than anything that Erick Erickson wrote. quote:For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. As the left-wing social justice warriors have created mobs across America intent on destroying lives for daring to engage in wrong-think, an equal and opposite white supremacist movement has risen up. Both would silence the other side for wrong-think. Both work at the extremes of American politics. I'm not buying it. He basically shrugs off yesterday as a result of the escalation brought about by 'both sides', barely removed from Trump's non-answer. As for "gives its opinion to many people of many backgrounds", that's a joke. Paul Krugman is as far left as they ever go. When have they ever give any space to antifa or DSA pieces, especially now? This is lovely 'teach the controversy' hand0wringing.
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Aug 13, 2017 16:41
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Democrazy posted:I honestly think the left is pretty united on who to blame for the attacks yesterday. Not everything is about Bernie versus Hillary. I never even mentioned Bernie or Hillary. This is about who is 'respectable' and who isn't. You can be grievously wrong about the Iraq War, about elections, about the 2008 Financial Crash, and still be considered a serious expert in the establishment circuit. speaking engagements, Think Tank positions, paid Op-eds. Hell, the NYT kept vile, serial-lying crook William Safire on its editorial page until he died. When you have a space to fill with opinions, your choices do say a lot about you. Every spot filled is a 'no' said to several other writers and points of view. There's a reason why global warming denialists have no issue getting column inches while, say, Moon landing hoax proponents get no love, despite both theories having about the same level of factual basis. They couldn't keep Sanders out because he's a senator and was a surprise in the primaries. There are no DSA leaders to be seen, though. No representatives of the people who were already dealing with nazis and 'alt-right' in campuses for months now.
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Aug 13, 2017 17:29
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EugeneJ posted:"Why doesn't the grassroots movement with no corporate backing have a large coordinated response to fascism?" You misread me. I'm not blaming the DSA in the slightest. I'm saying it is blacked out by the establishment on purpose. I'm sorry if it didn't come across that way; non-native speaker here. Basically, my point is that if the NYT (and other vehicles) want a 'variety of opinion', there are a lot of opinion they suspiciously avoid, and others that never have trouble getting space. Let's see how the NYT was talking about mobilization recently: "When Progressives Embace Hate" https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/01/opinion/womens-march-progressives-hate.html Oh noes! Progressives say zionism is bad! They are mean to Ayaaan Hirsi Allen, whom we might need to boost the next Middle East War!
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Aug 13, 2017 17:44
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