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It's been funny (well, no, nothing loving funny about this) to see the thirst for brown muslamiac blood all over the 'West' flare up again, because not that long ago the reactionary/conservative axis was not so subtly making peace with aspects of Islam. Andrew Tate and his chud army hyping it as a way to be a strong manly man, culture warriors praising how there's no woke LGBTQ or trans issue 'over there', and even the White house sweating blood to make sure all the Gulf monarchies finally make nice with Apartheid Israel so everyone can get back to keeping gas prices low and Shia populations contained. Liberals and conservatives even pretended to give a toss about Uyghurs! But now it's back to "these beasts will slash your throat with a curved blade the moment you let your guard down" on one side and "Welp, I'll be looking the other way while the blood flows, too bad so sad" on the other of official business.
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Oct 28, 2023 00:21
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MadSparkle posted:I don't understand how Netanyahu has been strengthening Hamas for years, instead of working with Abbas for statehood, and telling Likud to do the same if they wanted to avoid establishing a Palestinian state.... yet no one is holding him accountable for any of this? How is no one calling him out? He's never wanted a 2-state solution at all, he's entirely just turned a blind eye to Hamas and then deliberately ignored Abbas. It's driving me crazy that I'm not seeing any of this really being talked about on news. Because it's not just Bibi. Every Israeli faction from the center right and on prefers Gaza to be the only real power in the occupied territories. The old AP and PLO, corrupt and ineffective as they were, had some varnish of 'legitimacy' that made them acceptable by parts of the west. That meant annoying soft-hearted presidents from France and the US would bug Israel to try and make nice. "Hey, I'm making this summit, how about you sit with the polite pretend-marxist leader, maybe decide together which vilalges get water? I'll give you 15% more missiles if you do!" But the mainstream position is that they shouldn't -have- to negotiate. It's all theirs, palestinians are not a people and maybe not even people in general. And nobody anywhere is going to ask you to sit down and talk with Hamas, right? So they focused on wrecking the 'moderates' from the mid-90s onward. At many points, whenever a Hamas suicide bomber exploded in a cafe, the IDF would bomb that Palestinian Authority offices instead of Hamas camps, because "it's you fault, you can't control your people!". Well, they got what they wanted. Once Hamas was th only game in town, they pulled out of Gaza, because it wasn't worth the headache of having a patrol ambushed every month of so and then having to negotiate prisoner exchange (And said exchanges got Hamas a lot of good PR inside the strip for freeing arrested civvies) and focused on quietly digesting the west Bank, which is the best land they can get right now. Once that was done, they could ignore or empty Gaza at their leisure. They'll likely throw Netanyahu (gently) under the bus after things stabilize; you don't want to over-punish your butchers and crooks, because you need the next guy to not waffle when it's his turn on the killing floor. My main concern now is that he will try to expand the conflict into Lebanon and Syria (or Egypt if he'd -really- dumb and desperate) thinking they won't oust him while things are hot.
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Oct 28, 2023 13:34
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double jupiter posted:Intentionally murdering civilians "didn't happen in a vacuum". These intentionally murdered people are a "drop in the ocean". This is a very 1st-World, privileged selective morality. It's also very widespread, because it's so useful . There are several divides in the world public that inform stances on this conflict. Some are more visible than others. People who bomb cointries vs. Those who get countries bombed. Those who embargo vs. Those who get embargoed. Those who coup governments and those who get couped, etc. For the average western media consumer, the 'personal', visceral act of a radical/guerilla fighter sawing off someone's head will always seem infinitely more evil and intense than that of a blue-eyed pilot dropping fire onto a civilian city block and and scoring ten times the number of kills. Hey, some heads -might- come off during the procedure, but it wasn't intentional. _Those_ beheadings don't count. The notion that aerial bombing campaigns and 'special forces' missions are innately virtuous and less violent than whatever the wogs do is intrynsic to the current status quo. Likewise, blockades and starvation are designed to be invisible. Madeleine Albright's slow murder of 500,000 kids was famously 'worth it', and she was not wrong, in realpolitik terms; even the Human Rights hippies barely mention it anymore. To offer a smaller (but no less vile) example from my own country: In northern Brazil, one of the last-discovered native tribes, the Yanomami, was unti lrecently being blockaded and starved by local landowners/wildcat miners with the silent support of the Bolsonaro government and the Army. The pictures of emaciated, skeletal people and corpses would not be out of place in a holocaust documentary. And yet almost no one knew for months, even the brazilian agencies and NGOs that look out for this sort of things because 1- It's really far away and remote and 2- The besiegers have friens and money, buy ads in media, and the victims are 'just indians' and speak a funny language. Gandhi sort of warped perceptions for more than 70 years with his successful, peaceful protests. admirable though it was, it also happened in a VERY unique historical moment that is not likely to happen again; when the mass punishment and ethnic abuse of a people was seen as evocative of the recent Nazi atrocities instead of, y'know, business as usual. The Mau-Mau rebellion, east timor and other cleansings show how short that time window was. Robert Fisk was describing the Palestine situation as the last 'classic' colonial war 15 years ago. And colonial wars are, by definition, nasty and personal, with each side inflicting maximum pain on the other to get them to squeal and bug out. The big difference is that in the past, one side, usually the colonizer, had a metropolis to flee back to; French settlers abandoning their holdings in Algeria/Indochina to run back to France and rail that the government didn't protect their manor against the savages. This time, no side really has a first homeland to return to (other than the odd New Jersey car dealership owner dropping by to steal a Palestinian home so he can touch his origins). The point of all this is that most 'moral' gauges are skewed when it comes to colinial conflicts and war in general, depending on who does it, how well the thing is going, and how visible the pain is. Nearly always in favor of the strongest side with more backers. Any effort to 'gentle' hostilities and maintain rules of engagement and conduct are admirable, but breaching them doesn't really cost the powers anything. Who is there to judge and apply penalties? Themselves. Bloody sunday, Fallujah and Abu Ghraib were 'oopsies', blips gone from the radar, the perpetrators back home rich, serving as respectable consultants/media heads and smiling as they mow their lawns. Hey, if you think about it, the onus is on the wogs for not doing as they were told! Whatever the natives do when let out of their cages, though, it innately monstrous and representative of their entire people/government.
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Oct 29, 2023 16:18
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Bel Shazar posted:It would be a bad idea to announce that you're about to escalate the fighting. It'll likely be the usual show of support and request to stop the bombing, with a veiled threat of doing more if things stay hot. The thing with groups like Hezbollah is that you can't be -too- peaceful when this sort of thing happens, because half of your cred comes from being the defender of poor muslims against military oppression. But you also can't be gung-ho and open up at any provocation because Lebanon is already a barely-existing shitshow, and they supply a small thread of hospitals and aid services that make a huge difference across southern Lebanin that could easily be overwhelmed in a real war and gently caress things majorly for their local support base. So it's a paradox in which you attract people with the banner of being the bold warrior but keep your place in society by having to offer a minimum of governance. Not a needle most hotheads can thread, but here we are.
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Oct 30, 2023 01:20
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Civilized Fishbot posted:It's a sickening irony that exposes the madness of Israeli apartheid, it's still not correct to call Kfar Aza/Gaza Village a settlement, and the civilians who lived there were not settlers. The ICC is a joke, and designed to be a joke. Anyone with any financial or military clout just flat-out ignores it and the leading superpower is on record saying it will bomb the court before it lets a citizen get sentenced. It's a weak sop tothe whole "rules-based international order" shell game. "See, we put this loser from a marginal country's civil war no one gives a toss about in prison! Tremble in fear, tyrant wannabes! Better stay on the straight and narrow, or one of your party's subsecretaries might do some time 15 years from now!"
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Nov 3, 2023 17:33
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Both Irish and Brazilian nationals seem to be deliberately excluded from the lists of people allowed to leave Gaza, while countries that did not press for a ceasefire or gave carte-blanche to the scouring got bumped to the front.
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Nov 7, 2023 02:17
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Today the 6th group of foreign nationals/dual-citizens were allowed to leave gaza. No brazilians were allowed out, again, despite the country being one of the first to supply a list of its people, and the brazilian diplomacy corps, Itamaraty, being assured that this would be the time. People released from Gaza by nationality today: Ukraine 228 Philipines 107 USA 100 Canada 40 Germany 70 Romenia 51 There's talk that the israeli ambassador in Brazil, who was and is very close with the Bolsonaro mega-chud clan that was in ower until recently, is deliberately throwing a wrench in the proceedings to make the new government seem weak, but nothing is confirmed. https://jornalggn.com.br/oriente-medio/brasileiros-seguem-fora-da-6-lista-autorizados-deixar-gaza/
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Nov 8, 2023 20:22
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Israel's ambassador in Brazil was in a meeting with disgraced far-right ex-president Bolsonaro and his chud opposittion crew earlier to "share sensitive material". Even the local US-centric and Israel-favoring media have somewhat balked at that because Bolsonaro is seen a radioactive since his January 8th coup gambit. https://www.metropoles.com/colunas/guilherme-amado/apos-reuniao-com-bolsonaro-situacao-do-embaixador-de-israel-complica Official Israel accounts have also claimed that there are Hezbollah terrorists in Brazil planning a big attack, and that they are getting local help. It's a strange deal because the coutry has been in decent terms with both Lebanon and Iran for a while; however, two people have apparently been detained for further questioning on the matter. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/9/israels-mossad-says-helped-brazilian-police-foil-alleged-hezbollah-attack
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Nov 9, 2023 20:57
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Seems Israel has finally given the clear for brazilians in Gaza to evacuate.... AFTER their ambassador held a meeting wirh fascist ex-president Bolsonaro and his maniac crew. He's been quick to start crowing that -he- was the one to get the people out. On the brazilian Hezbollah angle, most feds are really pissed at being pre-empted from the outside. Back in 2016 there was also a lot of sirens over some big terror cell planning something big, which was then downgraded to "small radical group" and then to "some strange chatter in a forum and Whatsapp". Which made for a lot of eggs on investigator faces. So we'll see. Could be minor cash-raising and recruitment, could be nothing, could be an actual planned hit. Some of the usual suspects already picked their version and are on tv demanding Brazil cut ties with Lebanon and Iran (and thus kill BRICS again).
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Nov 10, 2023 12:09
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BUUNNI posted:Besides, you know, the actual genocide of Palestinians this was my biggest fear and one of the reasons why it doesn't seem outlandish that the Zionists will eventually turn against the United States and the West when everything is settled. Not likely. Israel pols actually did some legwork in becoming more 'independent' back in 2010, after Obama very softly said settlements were not cool (while keeping the money and UN vetos flowing). The answer they got to was basically: They can't. US support is what keeps EU support going, and without those and the 4 billion a year worth of weapons, they'll be facing a big drop in quality of life, international litigation, and basically turn into Iran-lite. No wonder that they then literally had their PM travel to the US a few years later to address Congress and poo poo all over the party that -might- tell them to cool things down once in a blue moon.
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Nov 10, 2023 19:51
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The evacuation of brazilians at Gaza was cancelled at the last moment. https://twitter.com/IsraelinBrazil/status/1723012474763391410 Israel claims that the transfer was blocked by Hamas, which is odd since other foreigners have been evacatuated without issue in the interval, and the Rafah crossing is managed by Egypt and the IDF, not Hamas. On the home front, the two suspected Hezbollah agents that Israel crowed about both came forward and denied any involvement (earlier reports had them confessing). The nationalities are also not what the first bits of news indicated (Syrian and Lebanese, not Iranian). So far, it has been alleged that the two met with known members of Hezbollah, but no details of specific plots have been revealed so far.
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Nov 11, 2023 18:59
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I said come in! posted:Did not expect them to go ahead and delete their obvious lies lol. What is going on over there behind the scenes? Not to get all conspiracy-y, but the hospital base reveal so far has been too ridiculous to be true. A dozen rifles and about that number of magazines? That barely lasts a day of fighting! No hostages or facilities that might hold them, so that they could at least say "See, look at these cages! they moves the hostages, but this is an evil terror then!". Odds are they just moved the weapons and gear of some slain qassam or the contents of a cache there and rolled some tape. I see two options. Either at this point the IDF, Shin Bet and the rest of the structure has fully drunk the kool-aid and believes their own hype or Terror NERV Headquarters under hospitals, or they know it's pathetic and don't care. They can say whatever and get play; Ben Shapiro was creaminghis slacks over a picture of a service shaft. It's the Noor Shireen playbook.: 1- Hamas totally killed that nosy bitch, um, brave reporter! 2- Well she was in the middle of a firefight and PRESS vests attract bullets, we'll never know what really happened! 3- Okay, it was our bullet, but it was an accident! 4- Guess our guy did shoot her deliberately, but we won't punish him. 5- Why are you still talking about that? Are you an anti-semite? Of course, having new war crimes rolling in every day or so helps keep the tide going.
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Nov 16, 2023 00:55
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NovemberMike posted:Realistically unless there's rpgs or rockets or real ordnance of some kind I don't see what any of this would prove. Normal rifles and grenades and things are kind of just reasonable things for people in warzones to have, you could tell me that those belonged to the doctors who carry them to protect from looters when they go home and I'd believe it. I could imagine findings that would give me pause and consider Israel's version. Say, cages/containment facilities for hostages. Racks upon racks of rockets and the assembly tools to make more. Rails/passages linking to other safehouses. But this weak poo poo? My libertarian ex had more guns before joining the campus libertarians shocked the Mises right out of her, and she downsized to just 3 rifles and 2 pistols.
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Nov 16, 2023 01:47
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So it really seems that the endgame of this operation is to cleanse Gaza into Egypt/wherever, while besieging the West Bank, splitting it into one or two new Gaza-style ghettos, and prepare to purge those too when the next oportunity/excuse presents itself. In Brazil-related news, the repatriated palestinian people are now undergoing a severe media blitz of being accused of being Hamas members/sympathizers, mostly started by Bolsonaro chuds, but with some surprisingly help by the national legacy media. And one of the people the Israel government accused of being a Hezbollah member planning a terror operation in the country was an established pagode (a funkier version of samba) musician who was planning a tour of Lebanon.
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Nov 17, 2023 17:25
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MadSparkle posted:That's wild. Any other info on the repatriated Palestinians, like how many are there in general? About 40 managed to get out in this batch, and there's talk that 50+ of their relatives may be able to leave as well, if things don't explode in southern Gaza. Even more managed to escape through the West Bank when hostilities started. https://www.correiobraziliense.com.br/brasil/2023/11/6656598-brasileiros-repatriados-de-gaza-recebem-ameacas-pf-vai-investigar.html The fulcrum of the case is Hasan Rabee, a brazilian-palestinian that went moderately viral posting pictures and videos of the war and is now in Brazil. He and others received so many death threats that the federal police has assigned special protection.
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Nov 17, 2023 19:26
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FlamingLiberal posted:Focusing on settler violence in the West Bank when Israel has killed 10,000+ people in Gaza and is now talking about invading the Southern part of Gaza where the majority of the population is now is certainly a take It does make a bit of warpse sense. Israel can turn Gaza into glass and Blinken and the other DC drones can just parrot "This is on Hamas! People there voted for this!" forever, but having Kristalnacht every day for months in the West Bank gives lie to the whole narrative. Besides, the people there have more working cellphnes and internet connections to get the gruesome stuff out. So it feels like a weak play at a red line. You can ethnically cleanse -here-, but over _there_ is too much. Which are empty threats, of course, when you're ferrying both cash and weapons to the party in question and just threw your credibility in the toilet by saying you just saw the massive Hamas Terror Bunker under that hospital along with all the beheaded babies.
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Nov 18, 2023 23:35
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Hong XiuQuan posted:I think the most likely evidence for this is that a good number of corpses were burned beyond recognition and of those at least 200 seem to have been Hamas (or at least not Israeli). It's quite likely that there are many tens, if not hundreds of others in such a state. The most reasonable explanation for those deaths is the IDF. It's not unlikely that at least some Hamas and Islamic Jihad attackers tried to steal the cars to get to the West Bank or other targets. add a scared/incompetent helicopter gunner getting terrified and furious orders to stop whatever is going on, and I can see a lot of civilians trying to get away getting hosed by heavy fire.
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Nov 19, 2023 02:26
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Neurolimal posted:
Yup. The PA in the late 90s/early 2000s was almost hilariously corrupt, ineffective and coopted, with Arafat himself being a punchline with a name, and the Israeli government still could not stop itself from stomping them into dust. There's no real evidence that Arafat was assassinated by Israel security services, but I'm inclined to believe just because it's the most paranoid and self-defeating move possible. "This guy leaves the occupied territories and shakes hands with European heads of state. He -has- to go!"
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Nov 20, 2023 19:48
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Main Paineframe posted:
I'm reminded of the time Bill O'Reilly had the son of someone who died in the World trade Center attacks on his show and spend all the time berating him for not being bloodthirsty enough. It was bizarrely cartoonish. Of course, because things only get dumber, now actual government figures do it in public.
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Nov 21, 2023 20:41
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With all the furore going on in Gaza, it was understandable that the madness in the West Bank was going to get less coverage. But with the ceasefire, the silence is still holding, despite Israel going almost as crazy (and arguably more malicious) there. Even with the hostage swaps, the IDF is up like +200 prisoners there, with charges running the gamut from flimsy ("You played music when your cousin was freed") to nonexistent. Settlers are more incensed than ever as well. And it's rarely brought up in interviews and statements. Part of it is that they are obviously desperate to give palestinians (and Hamas in particular) any sort of visible "win". The West Bank may not be under Hamas control, but families being reunited there because of Hamas-prompted negotiations still sends a message. And the whole West Bank in general is a big knife in the "our beef is with Hamas terrorists" narrative.
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Nov 28, 2023 12:46
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This is secondhand info from friends that actually visited, but the West Bank apparently gets caught in the "it could be worse" level of hell. Quality of life is leagues better than in Gaza, which is a low bar to clear, but still. If you are lucky, you can go weeks without being directly harassed/insulted/held. And the PA is heavily geared toward helping you deal with the occupation. Settlers stole your home? They'll help you find a new, shabbier place in the shrinking bantustan. IDF tore down your olive trees? They have an aid stipend so you dont't starve. Nephew arrested for having a shouting match with some IT manager from Jersey that came over to realize his ethbic destiny? They'll try to talk to the local officer and see what can be done. So people alternatebetween being happy for the relative luck they have, since they all have friends and relatives going through worse, and seething because they know it can get bad anytime.
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Nov 29, 2023 13:47
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FlamingLiberal posted:They keep trying to talk about a ‘two-state solution’ but conveniently ignore the details about how that would actually happen The two-state solution is a political cadaver. It's still a useful fig leaf to let the current policies go on because as long as there is a single palestinian ghetto surrounded by barbed wire and bombed every other week, the Blinken and their peers can still go "Ahem, we're working for peace between the peoples and hopefully we can advance at some unspecified date."
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Nov 29, 2023 17:24
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I wonder how they will define both illegal settlements and 'violent settler'. Will you have to be condemned by an israeli court? Merely mentioned in a case? It's kind of a ridiculous waffling as it is, with Bibi expanding the settlements into newly-conquered land right this moment. "This situation will not stands, it's a flagrant violation of existing deals and UN charters, and you can go full throttle as long as you don't put too many americans in your racism colonies!"
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Nov 30, 2023 00:14
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punishedkissinger posted:well he could have been Palestinian ok? Well, I feel like I may be veering into chud territory just by saying this, but Moses Maimonades and otherTorah scholar/philosophers very clearly wrote that if you throat a rock into a crowd aiming to kill a gentile and kill a fellow jew instead, you didn't really err because you wanted to kill the outsider. Not saying every jew/israeli believes that, but I can see some reaching for that rationale to excuse this, and the local institutions being what they are, I would not be surprised.
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Dec 4, 2023 02:44
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Civilized Fishbot posted:Where did he write this? Who else wrote this, and where? I am googling and can't find this line of thought. It's not totally implausible - for every kooky or heinous idea available you will find a distinguished scholar who's espoused it - but I haven't heard this one. My source for this is Christopher Hitchens' 'God is Not great', which I sadly don't have with me to check the exact quote. And for all of his issues, Hitchens was likely the more platable of the New Atheists when it came to writing, when he wasn't letting his War on Terror boner get in the way. And I don't think the violent/authoritarian impulses of the past and of the present are at odds, or need to be exclusive. Sadly, and especially now that reactionary politics keep preaching a return to old ideals, modern racist and exclusionary impulses can and do get boosted by being linked to old sources and rationales, both real and imagined. I meanm it's not for nothing that we have a bearded ogre bodybuilder on US$ 12k a month of bleeding edge steroids preaching that it's all due to his 'caveman' diet of milk and raw testicles.
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Dec 4, 2023 04:00
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Civilized Fishbot posted:Hitchens was one of the better New Atheists for sure. Huh. Teaches me not to post things without having the source handy. Might have been Dawkins' books, or a false bungled remebrance. Thanks for checking!
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Dec 4, 2023 12:21
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Civilized Fishbot posted:Where did he write this? Who else wrote this, and where? I am googling and can't find this line of thought. It's not totally implausible - for every kooky or heinous idea available you will find a distinguished scholar who's espoused it - but I haven't heard this one. Revisiting this briefly for context. It was Dawkins, not Hitchens! It's been 10 years or more since I read both, but the phrasing got stuck in my head. Page 254, 'Love Thy Neighbor' quote:Hartung clearly shows that 'Thou shalt not kill' was never intended to mean what we now think it means. It meant, very specifically, thou shalt not kill Jews. And all those commandments that make reference to 'thy neighbour' are equally exclusive. 'Neighbour' means fellow Jew. Moses Maimonides, the highly respected twelfth-century rabbi and physician, expounds the full meaning of 'Thou shalt not kill' as follows: 'If one slays a single Israelite, he transgresses a negative commandment, for Scripture says, Thou shalt not murder. If one murders wilfully in the presence of witnesses, he is put to death by the sword. Needless to say, one is not put to death if he kills a heathen.' Needless to say! Again, thanks for taking the time to check and supply other angles and examples. And for the person who brought up taqqyia-similes and other implications, I'll assume good faith and not a chance for a cheap shot: the topic being discussed which prompted my post was justification of atrocities and blatant wrongdoing before the world and one's own moral codes, and I cited it as an example of ingroup/outgroup morality. As an example of the type of argument -some- people might deploy. Such maneuvers are not at all unique to the current conflict or jewish/israeli people, of course; human history is rife with this kind of ethical contortionism, from 'nits will make lice' to 'they don't love their children as we do'.
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Dec 5, 2023 17:09
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After a month of investigations, Brazilian Federal Police has found no link between the suspects publicly pointed out by Israel as being Hezbollah agents preparing terror attacks in South America. https://www.cartacapital.com.br/cartaexpressa/pf-descarta-ligacao-de-brasileiros-com-o-hezbollah-e-justica-determina-soltura/ Both suspects have been released.
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Dec 6, 2023 17:35
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Nucleic Acids posted:Israel should cooperate with an independent investigation if they want their claims to be taken seriously. They are taken seriously by who matters: US government and media, NATO chiefs. The rest can go die in a fire as far as Israeli authorities care. It's like election recounts in 2000; why risk looking into it when the current result is already what you want? It can only go worse for you. I'm surprised they didn't fully go in with "We need to purge Gaza because arabs are all natural-born rapemonsters" as the leading story after October 7, and instead tried to euqate Hamas with Wehrmacht plus Cobra. We're 2 months into the ethnic cleanse and over 1 month into full ground operations and there have been no terror megabunker reveal, just office and storage rooms that look identical to the ones under the hospital I work at, and a fewer light arms than you could find in the garage of the most liberal Kentuckian. But you can always bank on western colonial "we white-passing people would -never- rape the browns, while they are all chomping at the bit to defile us!" tropes.
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Dec 8, 2023 17:33
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Another group of brazilian nationals and their relatives was allowed to leave Gaza. However, this time the israeli government decided to twist the knife and denied passage to several members of the same families, splitting them. Many approved people decided to stay behind with their relatives who were denied leave. 112 people were contemplated to leave, but only 85 actually came out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VhoQ3c6lzY The whole discussion about Hamas at this point is nothing but a smokescreen and a diversion, deliberate or otherwise. For over a month, all the corpses and the horror people see come from one side, the the propaganda and "it's complicated" mill needs to churn out -something-, so people latch onto unverified episodes of horrific violence (go to Twitter and you can find 'reports' of angel-face israeli girls being raped 'until their pelvis broke', of babies put in ovens and worse) to justify the horrors of today, whuch they support either overtly or tacitly. It's entirely possible, even likely, that the Oct 7 attacks involved sexual abuse. It does not ecuse the current course of events even slightly, and the fact that those in authority and their boosters resort to it is horrendous. There's literally people claiming with no basis that the remaining hostages in Hamas captivity are not released because they are being sexually abused and will continue to be, which 1-) no freed hostage had alleged, and 2-) Has now done additional violence to these people because if they get released, they'll be marked with the stigma of sxual abuse forever. Playing the game of 'perfect victim' is always a fool's errand. It's absurd morally and tactically to try to jump through the hoops imposed by your occupier and oppressor in order to be considered legitimate. A peaceful march to throw rocks at an aparteid walls, like in 2018? Horrendous! Have 200 of your people murdered and 10,000 injured, with israeli snipers competing to run the biggest knee-shot tally (winner:43). Refaat Alareer was entirely correct when he posited that the only proested Israel will accept is to walk into the ocean and die. Because he said it in english, the IDF murdered him and his family, in a targeted strike, in the last 72 hours. former CNN commentator Erick Erickson gloated about it online. Even loving _Russia_ hasn't run the tally of slain journalists, aid workers and children the IDF has, and their criminal war has been going on 5 times as long. I don't know if the most popular pop song in Moscow is a bop about killing Ukranians, but the top hit in Israel -is- about butchering palestinians. My worst nightmare is that as the illusion of international law erodes further, soon it will be my country under sanctions or bombardment, and in a very similar manner, people will be splitting hairs, listing all the ways we are icky and different and vaguely criminal that earned us the bombs, so they can just go on with their day and allow another massacre to occur. Assuming they aren't cheering for it.
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Dec 9, 2023 17:19
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It depends on whom you ask. It could be retribution for settlers violence and IDF brutality (we were looking at 70+ killed even before Oct 7). It could be to kick the status quo that was increasingly making palestinians a bantustan everyone was happy to ignore while the Gulf monarchies made nice with Israel. Not that the sheiks and kings care that much, but it'll be hard for them to shake Bibi's hand under Biden's decrepit smile while Israel is demolishing mosques. They'll have to at least wait a bit until the heat dies down or face some local unrest. It could be to retain political relevance; a resistance force that doesn't resist soon starts to lose credibility. Their main differences that make people favor them over the Fatah are being seen as 1-) Less corrupt 2-) Not sellouts. Could be a mix of those, or other factors. Only the Hamas leadership that somehow planned and carried this out without neither Shin Bet or its moles figuring it out really know.
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Dec 10, 2023 18:41
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:I think the Israelis are pretty tight-assed about what they show really. For example, I don't think the images of the stripped prisoners was ill-disciplined social media posting, but a deliberate thing that the IDF wants people to see. That is because they want to send the message that if you attack them, they'll humiliate you and emasculate you and turn your cities into rubble, and then they'll deal with the Arab powers that respect that display of strength and work with them anyways like the UAE. The U.S. wants them to do COIN-style methods like Iraq and Afghanistan, but the Israelis will reply, how did that work? They don't believe in it, and this is what I believe they're doing, and when the infantry are actually moving through, they're the last thing that anyone still left alive is seeing after the artillery, bombing from the air, and tanks have destroyed much of the area. Yeah, pretty much. I remember some National Review puke over a decade ago actually decrying the US for being too 'soft' in its imperial ambitions. Britain basically bred its upper class into a caste of unfeeling extraction androids that could claim any choice bit of coast, run opium, empty granaries and let people starve, put down revolts and never flinch or even show doubt when writing home; Even their propaganda and justification literature was for internal consumption, a victory lap. But the US can't help the urge to shake its thralls by the shoulder and wail "WHY DON'T YOU LOVE US? We're the GOOD guys!" in a genuinely wounded tone.
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Dec 11, 2023 01:36
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Yawgmoft posted:Every time I think Biden can't say something grosser about Israel than he already has I am proven wrong. I still think his original "If Israel didn't exist, we'd have to invent it, to FURTHER OUR INTERESTS IN THE REGION. Best 3 billion we spend!" quote is more revealing and despicable, and done well before he started visibly decaying, too, so you knew it was earnest. It was a classic case of mediocre party-machine rear end-kisser letting loose a bit and cosplaying as grand imperial chessmaster.
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Dec 12, 2023 11:25
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https://prospect.org/world/2023-12-12-palestinians-imprisoned-social-media-posts/ Biden should at the very least demand that Ben-Gvir and the other top psychos be sacked. Apparently the imperial superpower can't even tell its satellite to keep the apartheid on the down-low. Even that ghoul Reagan managed to elbow Israel and go "You're making the scene look bad, quit the butchery for a bit". Eisenhower slammed the table and got Britain, France and Israel to stop rolling aroung Egypt like it was a new Race for Africa. But the Cold War winner hyperpower suddenly can't do more than faint "Sure would suck if you dropped the white phosphorus we give you on civvies, eh?" innuendo.
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Dec 13, 2023 14:22
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https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israeli-troops-filmed-brutally-beating-palestinian-photojournalist-in-east-jerusalem/ It shouldn't surprise me how naked and brazen the abuse is, but it still does. A friend of mine who visited Hebron and Jenin in the late oughts told me that he was there with friends and family and they had planned a trip to Jerusalem. At the checkpoint, they split the group into three smaller ones, because if the soldiers saw a party of friends, they'd always retain one of more people for hours or send them back, just to be shits and ruin everyone's trip. Obvious couples were also separated just as often, and everyone had a horror story of needing to take an elderly relative to another city for a medical exam or visit and then be told "Oh, your dad can go. You stay while we, um, check things." or vice versa. If you get pissed because this is happening for the 56th time and scream at a sargeant? Criminal charges.
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Dec 15, 2023 23:48
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Seyser Koze posted:Worth pointing out (again) that American police departments send people to Israel to get pointers on how to police populations back home. Between that and the "Dude, having sex after you snuff the life out of someone's eyes is the BEST" cop lecturer that had trained like 1500 precincts, color me unsurprised.
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Dec 16, 2023 16:33
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I wonder which POC in the US delegation to the UN will get to raise their hand to veto it this time. Do you think they take turns or just draw straws?
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Dec 30, 2023 02:17
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Apparently the Israeli Supreme Court has (narrowly) struck down Bibi's power grab of the last months. It remains ti be seen if this will cause him to pause and regroup to sustain his coalition, or if he'll double down on the slaughter to try and deliver -something- to the public, and thus come across as their defender compared to the meddling/corrupt/weakling judges trying to stop him from saving everyone. I know where I'd place my chips, especially now that the US seems to have just gone "what's mine is yours' regarding its whole weapons materiel stockpile.
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Jan 2, 2024 00:17
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I assume what they are 'veteran' at is escorting West Bank settlers when they go on their weekly Kristallnacht-analogue.
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Jan 2, 2024 10:16
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Or they believe in tightening the starvation/thirst noose to thin them out/push them out and spare their 22-year-old Field Marshals.
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Jan 2, 2024 14:03
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