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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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Wow. Just....poo poo. The guy's timeline is just centrism.txt.
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Aug 13, 2017 18:08
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| # ¿ May 12, 2024 04:36 |
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JC had to time-travel 75+ years to find a progressive of note spouting outdated, bad racial stereotypes. Hillary was raving about Super-Predators in the formative years of the lion's share of current voters. Guess which one bothers him more.
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Aug 13, 2017 18:13
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Agnosticnixie posted:The specific statement is that they were still doing a headcount of people who were at least there in an official IWW related capacity. At a time when her name was still kept secret. Also she still wasn't a centrist. If it was up to centrists the nazi march would have been a resounding success and plenty of 'moderates' would be scratching their chins and going "Hmm, maybe there's something to this, I guess the Democratic party -should- be more racist!"
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Aug 14, 2017 02:57
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yronic heroism posted:"I heard it on twitter". Lol literally the Donald Trump sourcing method. Once more, gently caress off. Is this all shame for knowing that you or yours would never have raised a finger if this had all happened in your town? You must be itching to post links to articles detailing how the whole thing was just a russian operation.
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Aug 14, 2017 17:04
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If only West gad given people at the protest adamantium skeletons proof against vehicular homicide!
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Aug 14, 2017 23:14
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Still sucks that it took literal nazi uprisings and leftists being murdered on camera to get 'moderates' to quit the "alt-leeeeft!!!" garbage. Somewhat. It's still a fact that the DLC and their rear end-kissers fear engaged, organized leftist movements way, WAAAY more than reoublicans. Or white supremacists, for that matter. Nazis are just something they can condemn with a tweet and look good doing it. Actual, active leftists are rivals for power.
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Aug 16, 2017 15:09
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poo poo, even Tina Fey is wiffing this? I never expected her to bat for antifa and DSA, but I expected her to at least know better than to go "Come onnn guys, let the nazis have our streets now and then, what's it to ya?"
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Aug 18, 2017 17:46
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Ze Pollack posted:a strategy that served the democratic party extremely well in 2016 Must demobilize and depersonalize all politics! The ideal voter is someone who considers voting democratic every 2 years a personal hobby or lifestyle choice, like being a vegan. They shouldn't get hung up on personalities or getting any actual benefit from it. That's selfish!
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Aug 22, 2017 00:50
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Yeah, might as well capitalize on his not-really-earned popularity to stab some daggers into the GOP, but no, that would be too proactive or might offend some donor.
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Aug 22, 2017 01:10
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:
Your party basically exists to funnel contribution money to a professional grifter class of pollsters, bureaucrats and middle managers while making GBS threads on anyone who wants to accomplish any worthwhile goal through political power. gently caress, Obama actually put shitlord extraordinaire [/]Billy Tauzin[/b] (the guy behind the laws that forbid drug reimportation and price haggling for Medicare) in a campaign ad as a symbol of all that was wrong with the system for health care, then called the same scumbag to the White house a dozen times in six months to help craft the ACA before sending him home with a multimillionaire payoff. And when he had to resort to reconcilitiation anyway, he didn't change anything on the bill because dammit, those hucksters won their cash fair and square! No wonder you guys love incrementalism so much. Each incremental step is another opportunity to collect bribes while changing almost nothing.
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Aug 22, 2017 23:39
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I likely voted the nearly same way you have in the past 3 elections And you seem ready to keep voting that way for another 3, which will lead to the same ruinous result unless the game is changed. What is it that they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, again?
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Aug 23, 2017 00:17
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Ze Pollack posted:retreat into nihilistic apathy because he's afraid to give a poo poo. it's a fairly common form of political disengagement after you get burned. That was the case for me, actually. I'm not in the US, but my GF is american so I always followed the politics there. I was a bit lukewarm on Obama during his first run (he seemed to get along too well with Joe Lieberman), but hell, he had voted against the Iraq war and knew how to get people engaged. I dared to hope. Then... -Tom Daschle as HHS secretary. (consultant for one of the top health-care law firms in the country, board member of the Mayo Clinic (a major recipient of NIH grants) and the husband of one of America's biggest defense lobbyists — wife Linda Hall lobbies for Lockheed-Martin and Boeing) -Eric Holder as AG, free to run his "No wealthy crooks in jail, ever" approach to financial crime. -Timothy Geither at the Treasury, the weasely homunculus lovechild of Robert Rubin and Larry Summers, two of the architects of a fuckton of corruption and big-money fuckery of the last 25 years. From that point on, it was clear to me. If democrats would not pull left after a world-shaking crisis of capitalism after 8 years of disastrous foreign wars and incompetence at home, they were never, ever going to. They will gladly strangle the last single-payer advocate with their own leaking entrails before they'll ever dirty the shoes of the donor class.
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Aug 23, 2017 00:40
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:"Obama is the best we had" is exactly why I'm OK with describing Obama as Neo-Reagan, if only to counterbalance that poo poo but from the left. Then you are being dishonest as well as dumb. Obama was a status-quo poo poo, selling out peacemeal to keep his tenure going. Reagan was an actively regressive conservative steamroller singling out unions, slashing taxes, naming government as the eternal enemy and appointing loons (loving Dinesh D'Souza got his big start under him) as the logical conclusion of what he'd been preaching with a dead smile for almost 30 years. I despise Obama, but this is asinine and doesn't help anything. Why not say he is the new Dr. Mengele, then while we're at it? Think how much counterbalancing that would do!
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Aug 23, 2017 15:28
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I find it darkly funny that at least Obama thought we were worth the effort of lying to. "Sure, close Guantanamo, Single Payer, get tough on Wall Street. I'm for all that, just like you. Just vote for me." The DLC and their pals don't think we deserve even that much. They fully expect to be applauded and lionized for acting like republicans circa 1992, and seem genuinely hurt and puzzled when they aren't. "You guys don't get poo poo! Just focus on, um, innovation, disruption, new economy! Hey, why are you leaving?"
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Aug 24, 2017 01:58
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Yay, Fulchrum. If there's a ban on BernieXHillary chat in the Trump thread, shouldn't there be a similar Hillbot ban here? Feels like very easymode trolling for some types to pop in, vomit their screeds that would have included the term "alt-left" until last week when Trump appropriated the culture, then scamper back to where they can't be touched.
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Aug 24, 2017 05:20
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Majorian posted:I agree for the most part, but I think we can probably do without Fulchrum gimmick-posting compulsively like he does. Definitely. I'm all for talking about policies, candidates and such with anyone who drops by. But people coming in just to relive the worst days of the old US politics thread with blatant shitposting doesn't help anyone. Quite the opposite, in fact.
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Aug 24, 2017 05:59
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Ze Pollack posted:fulchrum. Obviously that Bernie is _stealing_ Hillary's well-earned popularity with his atheist jewish sexist mojo.
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Aug 25, 2017 01:20
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I have two friends that are young PoC girls and ridiculously hyped for Bernie, doing campaign stuff and all and they were basically crushed at how invisible they were in any discussion. Whenever they tried to offer themselves as examples of Bernie support that wasn't white college bros they were simply ignored, online or offline. Hell, Rosario loving Dawson was all in for Bernie and basically no one gave a gently caress because it was against the narrative.
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Aug 25, 2017 02:20
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Fulchrum posted:Now, if we can leave your intense persecution complex for just a second, maybe we should restrict this to just things from the real world. I mean, there is a big difference between being at a protest one time and not being named King of Civil Rights, and swift boating, but that would require a bit of perspective. I'd ask the person who posted the wall of Centrist Tweets making GBS threads on the "ALT LEFT" during the protests until one died and they siddenly had to pretend to care...but you'd certinly just ignore it. So, yeah. Persecution complex. That's cute. Whatever lets you sleep at night, I guess.
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Aug 25, 2017 03:05
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Fulchrum posted:The gently caress does right wing pundits making GBS threads on protestors have to do with Bernie being handled with kid gloves from beginning to end in the primary, and you still screaming and ranting that he was smeared worse than anyone ever? Because it wasn't right wing pundits, but liberal, reasonable 'progressive' liberals. Also, kid gloves? Wow. This is entering Alex Jones territory. I wouldn't say Bernie got the worst media smear of all time, though. Not by a long shot. He was ignored/belittled just enough, and it worked.
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Aug 25, 2017 03:24
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https://twitter.com/DougHenwood/status/896507233588178947 https://twitter.com/palebirdy/status/896480254952435712 https://twitter.com/LanaDelRaytheon/status/896490866386259969 https://twitter.com/LanaDelRaytheon/status/896493651299155970 https://twitter.com/eclecticbrotha/status/896729849041178625 Here, Fulchrum. A little sample of woke, well-meaning liberals hissing at the dreaded alt-left mucking things up in C-ville before they had to be shamed by fuckin' Trump into not having the humanitarian instincts of spiders. There's more and worse out there, but honestly you're not worth the effort. Tell me more about that persecution complex.
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Aug 25, 2017 04:04
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Condiv posted:how much sheetcake are these people eating now? or donuts? We may never know. They should build statues to memorialize their stoic sacrifice. The Monument of the Unknown Cake Eater.
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Aug 25, 2017 04:35
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Lightning Knight posted:How do you define "arguing honestly," because I'm pretty sure they totally believe what they're saying and aren't lying. I mentioned centrists making GBS threads on leftist/antifa during the shitstorm in C-ville. Fulchrum replied that it had nothing to do with anything since it was obviously right-wingers bashing on protesters. I brought up several tweets of liberals bashing leftist counter-protesters while people were literally still bleeding on the sidewalks. Fulchrum immediately picks on another post by someone else and starts calling people real nazis. Rinse, repeat. Trolls never really add much to a thread. Even when they are amusing, which JC and Fulchrum certainly aren't, they keep actual conversation and exposition from happening.
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Aug 25, 2017 06:35
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Calibanibal posted:When the centrists send their people, they’re not sending their best. They’re bringing insults. They’re bringing shitposts. They’re trolls. And some, I assume, are good people  Well played, sir or madam. Well played.
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Aug 25, 2017 06:48
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brian posted:Just so you guys know, when the left inevitably take over the democratic party and democratise it, all but one or two of the centrist apologists will stop posting entirely and the remaining one(s) will become a cliche of bad faith arguing because they like the attention If history is any indication, 25% of them will just straight shift to the GOP. Party unity only works in one direction!
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Aug 25, 2017 15:13
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D.N. Nation posted:Left: Universal healthcare is a good thing. :eyeroll: Oh yeah, remember that famous video of alt-leftist HUGGING Richard spencer on Twitter? It went viral and everything! And Spencer groupies love the alt-left so much they drive cars through themin their eagerness to offer friendship rides. There is a difference, you know, between warning that if you don't offer something tangible to the desperate rung of society someone else will come along and offer it along with a nice serving of hate, and applauding nazi populism as a good thing.
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Aug 25, 2017 16:39
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Ze Pollack posted:perhaps the democrats could propose doing something for us to support "Alright, but only if it's a lie. We pretend to be for Single Payer, you scum vote for us, then we shrug and say it was impossible if we win, and you guys get to have fun watching the Daily Show gasp at how unreasonable the GOP is for the next 4 years." That's centrist nirvana right there.
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Aug 25, 2017 17:38
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I worry that trying to do too much in one fell swoop will doom any chances of major changes. Yes, cost control is a major issue, but there can be things done outside of the medicare for all fight that can address those. I think specific goals with specific actions are better than broad general proposals. This is a legitimate concern, but not one that is realistic in political terms. The ACA is as incremental as you can be in health reform matters without being a straight care package to PHrMA like Bush's 2003 bill, and it was still pounced upon like it was the Khmer Rouge's brainchild. Making it so measures have powerful, noticeable positive impacts upon people's lives and actually solve their problems is pretty much the only way to assure their survival. If someone needs a horse to plow their field, they won't be mollified if you go "See, I wanted to give you a horse, but it might be too much too fast. So here's a poodle and some horseshoes."
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Aug 25, 2017 20:42
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Uggh. This is so aggravating. The liberal truism that "Hispanics are a growing block and the GOP shits on them, so we're bound to have an eternal majority soon!" just refuses to die. It's one of those weird zombie lies of politics, too useful (for certain people) to let go of. Hispanics are not a monolithic block. Plenty of them are true conservatives on the basis of strict Cold War-era Catholicism alone. Another chunk has obtained citizenship and/or believe the self-made man myth and will gladly vote GOP in order to set themselves apart for the "bums that didn't have it as hard as me but still get nowhere". And, like any other voting block, you also need to give them something real to aspire to, not just point to the other guys and make scary noises. This in anecdotal, of course, with me being hispanic and having heard the sickest near-Objectivist poo poo from friends and relatives. The way to secure a sizable chunk of the hispanic vote long-term is by offering education and expanded health/quality of life services that make even those lowest on the totem pole feel welcomed and valued. Sure, many will still find a reason to voe for others or pretend no one ever helped them, just like McConnel pretends no one else paid for his medical treatments as a kid so he wouldn't be in an iron lung. But enough of them will at least want to keep a good thing going. Otherwise, any ephemeral Dem hold on hispanics will always be fragile and easily countered by gerrymandering and divide-and-conquer strategies. P.S- Foreigner's question here: do any bigshot dems (leftists or liberals, doesn't matter) even bring up gerrymandering in any forceful capacity? It feels like such a big issue to be kept so quiet on the public discourse. I can't imagine any party in the world looking at graphs that show it grabbing majorities of the vote but getting less and less positions per capita and going "Yeah, this looks hopeful for the future."
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Aug 26, 2017 18:05
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Centrists suffer from the same problem that the US of A does on the global level: They have had control of the stage for so long and have been able to skate after so many screw-ups that would devastate less entrenched powers, that they literally can't tell the difference between success and failure anymore. "Huh, counter-protesters brought out the ugly, deadly side of conservative violence for the world to see. We can literally run against Nazis now and force the GOP to own their hate or forsake their base. It's the kind of political opportunity that comes by once a generation. How can we best employ this?" HEY GUYS CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG? This mess in our campuses just isn't cool! You are empowering the meanies by opposing them so vehemently! Just look at how Baked Alaska, Richard Spencer and other alt-right shitlords are high on the hog now! Just saying, Heather Whatshername would still be alive if she was back home tweeting our fine #Resist memes and voting for our new stickers. Maybe Sean Hannity was on to something when he came up with this alt-left jazz... Then, again, this is to be expected. It's the party who saw streets flood with a massive, surprising mass of humanity against the war in 2003 and decided "We better stay the hell away from this, make no attempt to boost or be a part of this movement. Why engage with the people at all? Besides, no senator who votes against Iraq is ever, say, gonna be president!"
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Aug 29, 2017 00:59
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"Come on guys, it's not laziness and inaction that keeps me from defending the only people doing something effective against the groundswell of bigotry! I'm just following the example of the greats, like MLK!" "Also, I wasn't cheating on my spouse with a prostitute last week. I was, um, embracing the cause of free love and sexual liberation. Yeah, that's the ticket!"
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Aug 29, 2017 03:06
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"I care -deeply- about optics. That's why I supported and still defend the political viability of one of the country's most unpopular, controversial candidates, who has had a whole media m machine dedicated to sliming her for some 20 years now, even after a tense primary in which she got debate questions ahead of time from a TV host, refused to release her speeches to the financial bigshots that funded her campaign, collapsed on camera and had to be loaded into a van like a sack of flour. I am a coherent person and my thought on issues should be taken seriously."
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Aug 29, 2017 04:27
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Apparently Kamala Harris has come out in favor for Single Payer a party flag. Pleasant Noises or Moving with the times? We'll soon see. Also, should we start a pool to bet on how long until JC resorts to "Free speech!" defenses of fascists? It can be -that- far away. P- gently caress, beaten!
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Aug 31, 2017 01:17
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Kilroy posted:This is the thread for trashing Democrats so that's what we do, but never forget that it's fuckos like this who are first against the wall. Not just that, but if it hadn't been for the forceful reaction to the 'Unite the Right' crapfest, a lot of these centrists and their Dem shitgolems would be scratching their chins and publishing "We obviously need to find a way to appeal to there clean-cut, frustrated, pasty individuals who were so organized and peaceful in their free speech demonstration. It's time to build the Wall" pieces.
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Sep 1, 2017 18:28
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Mister Facetious posted:You're right. Bill Clinton actually went further than the GOP ever could with regressive social, criminal, financial, and workerist policy. It was the spirit of the times! Peer pressure! I was already the uncool kid because I hadn't gotten my ear pierced with along everyone else! He had to deregulate financial crap or they'd never have elected him to a....third presidential term!
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Sep 2, 2017 01:38
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shrike82 posted:Tbf, without JC, this thread would be a tenth of its size and involve dissecting meaningless Twitter fights. That would be fine by me. Talking about ways to push the window to the left and make progressive discourse and policy viable beats having to deal with wobbly centrists trying to make excuses to themselves about why their deathgrip on the party will finally yield positive results now, if you lefties don't muck it up, just wait and see! And yeah, it's kind of creepy how basically every 'liberal' website and newspaper suddenly started talking about Antifa in tones usually reserved for Timothy McVeigh.
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Sep 2, 2017 05:22
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Eli Lake and Michael Weiss having continued success and prestige are, in a way, far better proof of the sickness of the 'establishment' than Trump's elections. They are like smaller-scale David Brookses, hopping from side to side to stitch together a meaner, more warlike status-quo. That they get to pass as 'moderates' would be weird if their usefulness to a system that thrives on apathy wasn't so transparent.
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Sep 2, 2017 18:17
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Has there been some in-depth study done about the effects of the 15-dollar minimum wage where it has been passed? I wanted some data for an article.
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Sep 3, 2017 03:42
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Guy Goodbody posted:Oh sure, at this point I genuinely doubt that Democrats even want to be in power. Oh, they do, if only because you have to be a contender to get donations and prestige in order to keep your operation going. Our blessed ruling class did not get so hideously rich wasting cash on perpetual losers. The party just wants the power without any onus of actually delivering most of the things that keep a voting block going: benefits, education, health, social advancement, security. Any measure that makes real advances have been deemed impossible by the Serious People except in the most incremental, lateral approach, and even then you better be happy with spending two dollars on bribing existing power structures for every buck that goes toward service to a poor/brown.
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Sep 4, 2017 01:16
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| # ¿ May 12, 2024 04:36 |
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Majorian posted:This is true, but Arceneaux is also correct in his thesis, as much as it galls me to admit it. Sanders didn't think he was going to be running anything more than a single-issue "vanity campaign," intent on dragging Clinton to the left. He didn't tweak his economically populist message to speak specifically to minority primary voters until the Clinton campaign had successfully bludgeoned him over it. Once he did course-correct, he did so pretty well, but by then it was too late. You only get to make one first impression, at least per election cycle. I'm pleased to see that Arceneaux thinks that Warren is communicating more successfully to POCs, because I think she is too. Agreed. It's worth remembering that every campaign goes through adjustments and changes, though; they don't spring fully-formed from the forehead of Zeus. Obama was smart to shift his tone when the Financial Crisis hit and when oil prices exploded due to speculation. I still don't know if Hillary was right or wrong to bring up the Deplorables in a speech. And of course, there is always the issue of whether the narrative will even acknowledge your stance on an issue, no matter if it's been there from the start or if it's a course correction.
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Sep 4, 2017 02:27
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