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cheesetriangles posted:There is prophecies spoken thousands of years before they happen which means all those events are already laid out well ahead of time. Why go though the whole song and dance of will the chosen one fall, when the entire thing is already written. The creator is not a force of good. Anybody can misread prophecy/prophecy can be changed or altered (See: Ishmael), and forcing an event can lead to unintended consequences/ripples in the pattern.
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Feb 27, 2023 06:49
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I think it's book 4 when she thinks to herself "that should follow the oaths" or something, but she's pretty clearly always been playing an angle of some sort I mean, in book two when she tells Rand and co that Moiraine sent her, and later in the book Moiraine mentions that she did no such thing. These two things are like, 30 chapters apart and she's a very likable character so most people miss it on their first pass. Just an outright lie.
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May 16, 2023 23:21
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I thought rahvin was black So did I. This is pretty close to how I imagined him, just with an even handsomer face.  Barreft posted:Galad Thirding this. He's gotta have beautiful, long hair though. Too beautiful to be real.
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Jun 1, 2023 02:42
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bio347 posted:Actually, textually, it's because Saldaeans are loving weird. Davram and Deira Bashere are noted as being odd because they don't have knock-down, drag-out fights at the drop of a hat. I just reread Lord of Chaos, and Davram even tells Perrin how Saldean relationships work! Perrin then proceeds to ignore this advice and wonder why his wife is always hurt and upset.
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Jun 26, 2023 02:03
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ChubbyChecker posted:the flashbacks were the best thing that jordan ever wrote I'm pretty sure the flash forward was Sanderson. e: Yeah it was him. "Aviendha's trip through the glass pillars was the most audacious thing I believe I pitched at Team Jordan, and was one of the things about which they were the most skeptical. Perrin's balance between action and inaction risked having him descend into passiveness." "When asked about Aviendha’s second trip through the pillars in Rhuidean, Brandon said that he pitched that sequence. He related that Team Jordan was initially reluctant, but once he actually wrote a draft of the scene, they loved it. He said that he is most proud of that chapter."
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Jun 30, 2023 08:42
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MajorBonnet posted:I wish we had a better idea what was RJ and what was Sanderson in the last books. I've long thought that some of the more disliked passages were actually by RJ and he just hadn't had time to refine it, but they were left mostly as is since it was his. Here are some things that Sanderson has confirmed. All three books had prologue parts that Jordan had almost/had written completely. The farmer in TGS, the attack at the tower in Kandor in ToM, and the Slayer scene were his. There may have been more but those are the ones I could quickly reference. (The Kandor tower scene is the one that immediately stuck out to me as a Jordan sequence when I first read it). There were some parts where the chapter was complete, there were some parts where a few paragraphs needed to be expanded into a chapter, and there were some parts where a few sentences needed to be expanded into a chapter. The finite details likely won't be released, but you never know. The Gathering Storm - Egwene was mostly Jordan. The Verin Scene was almost entirely written by RJ and that revelation came as a huge shock to Sanderson. - Rand was mostly (but not entirely) Sanderson filling in the blanks. - Sanderson felt very uncomfortable writing the spanking sequence but he did it. Towers of Midnight - Mat was mostly Jordan. The entire Tower of Ghenjei sequence had been written by Jordan, including the proposal at the end. - Perrin was mostly Sanderson. Perrin had the least material of the big 5 written out. AMoL - This was the book that had the most Sanderson. The scene with Moiraine at Merrilor was Jordan, the epilogue was Jordan, and the basics for who lived/died and what happened were in RJ's notes but very little of the last battle had been written out. I actually really liked Sanderson's choice to make The Last Battle chapter incredibly loving long. He did that to try and make the reader feel some of the exhaustion that the characters were feeling, which I think is neat. - Harriet made the decision to kill Siuan and Bela, because they had been put in situations that were too dangerous to escape. Harriet had final say for anything that happened. Apparently a lot of sentences were at minimum Part Brandon, Part Harriet, and Part Maria if they weren't a Jordan sentence. I haven't hit those three on my reread yet but I remember thinking that Sanderson did a nice job ending it. He had an easy job in one hand, because all of the dominos were already starting to fall and where they landed was decided. He also had a monumentally difficult task making sure that the ending was satisfying to the people who were reading the series for 23 years (15 in my case when AMoL came out), and I think he did that in most regards. e: It will never not be amusing to me that GRRM was the original choice to finish the series.
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Jul 15, 2023 17:27
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buffalo all day posted:I thought Brandon himself was like yep I couldn’t figure out mat in tgs, sorry folks. I thought he did as good a job as anyone could but those parts are deep in the uncanny valley Yeah, the bad Mat is mostly TGS, and that was entirely Sanderson. He knows he hosed up with that one. I don't totally mind it but it's definitely a shift, because Mat is usually saying one thing, thinking another, and doing a third thing, which Sanderson said made him a very difficult character to write. Vs. Perrin who is fairly straightforward, although he may not always realize what he's doing (physically picking up somebody and moving them and thinking he's being reasonable, when that actually comes off as quite intimidating), who I think Sanderson did a very good job with. Sanderson also found him the easiest character to write. Any inconsistencies in the bits that Jordan wrote can be entirely chalked up to him not having enough time to work on the writing. He typically wouldn't show anything even Harriet until draft 12 or 13. A Knife of Dreams is one of the best books in the series, I know he would have stuck the landing.
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Jul 16, 2023 08:34
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Cavelcade posted:One of my favourite Perrin moments is in The Dragon Reborn is when the Grey Men come into the pub in Illian and he rips a chair in half to use a weapon and does not understand why people are staring at him. Absolutely. That, him picking up people and moving them, him feeling his hand being wet and looking down and realizing he crushed the metal ale tankard, etc are just great moments because he just has absolutely zero clue why people are staring at him in disbelief. "Oh oops I casually did that thing that normal humans can't do, why is everybody looking at me?" Khizan posted:I think that the "Actually, a lot of the worst parts of the last three books were by Jordan" comments should really be "Actually, a lot of the worst parts of the last three books were Jordan's rough drafts", because he didn't get to go through his lengthy editing process and Sanderson (understandably imo) didn't want to touch them. Agreed. That being said, the ToM prologue in the tower in Kandor goes HARD. Egwene (primarily Jordan-written) in TGS is incredible. The chapter A Fount of Power is very much 
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Jul 16, 2023 10:29
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Gnoman posted:It is subtle, but Nyneave does a lot of growing up over the course of that arc. She technically has authority over Elayne due to her higher rank in the Tower , but it is a much flimsier sort of authority than that of Wisdom, and has no authority at all over anyone else. That goes a long way toward letting her give up her provincialism later. Agreed, plus her shifting relationship with Egwene. At the very start of the book she is certain that she knows more than everybody, but by the end of the book she is starting to realize that she doesn't ALWAYS have to be in charge/know everything and can rely on other people (a key step to her learning to surrender and break her block). Also, the scene where Nynaeve tries to heal Birgitte makes me tear up every time I read it and would hate for that to get cut.
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Jul 16, 2023 22:40
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thekeeshman posted:Did Jordan or his wife ever say how many books he intended the total series to be? Because based on the pace of events in the three Sanderson books it seems like it would have taken Jordan at least six books assuming he decided to start winding things down at that point. Like others said, it was initially a trilogy but Tor bought a 6 book series. I think it's fairly obvious that he quickly realized that he had a much bigger story to tell, and was laying down more plotlines than could possibly be wrapped up in a few books. This was posted on dragonmount apparently and is pretty funny to read through. dragonmount posted:
It really, really seemed like as time went on he was aiming for 12. With what was left to settle, it would likely have been two 1100 page books but that would have been fine with me. He was putting the pedal to the metal in A Knife of Dreams and all of the dominoes were starting to fall. Because of the timeline being hosed up we got the balescream's initial effects in AKoD, even though the actual event happened in TGS. I don't think Sanderson sped up the ending; Jordan was clearly heading towards it. That's the issue with spending so long setting so many things up; they all need to be wrapped up at some point. Which he was doing!
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Jul 18, 2023 16:28
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Hexel posted:I think they've proven their willingness to not march through the plot in a linear fashion. I think they'll include the chosen with the most compelling storylines. Could be that Ishamael is just not in the 8 and is above them, so he isn't one of the ones featured there. Ishamael, Lanfear, Mog, Asmodean, Rahvin, Graendal, Sammael, Semirhage, and Demandred would be my choices to keep if you have to cut a few. They're all different enough from one another and have very important roles in character development (although Demandred and Sammael are the most similar). pik_d posted:There's a part of me sad that TV only viewers won't get to experience Be'lol. Same. I love Moiraine coming in from out of nowhere and ganking Be'lal but he'd be the first to go if I had to cut anybody.
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Aug 2, 2023 19:46
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ChubbyChecker posted:they should have extra balefire Ok Rand.
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Aug 2, 2023 19:55
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I'm not posting this in the spoiler-free thread because I think it'd get a better response here vs just a ton of spoiler text in the other thread. So one of my friends is going through WoT for the first time on audiobook (I'm re-reading the books just ahead of him so everything is fresh) and he's on ACoS. His predictions for ACoS after reading the prologue were - Rand is going to suffer a huge defeat, likely at the hands of Sammael - No way Rand takes Illian, that happens next book. There are still a bunch of books left! - Mat somehow ends up in Seanchan. How else is he going to meet the Daughter of the Nine Moons? (He picked up that connection as soon as it was possible, I was impressed) - Egwene and the Rebel Aes Sedi are going to make it to the White Tower at the end of the book. - Cadsuane shows up (He read New Spring after TFoH) - The Seanchan are in Tanchico. The third prediction was the one that I found the most amusing. I did my best to keep a straight face as he was saying it, which was pretty hard in the "How else is he supposed to meet Seanchan royalty?" part. So far Mat is his favorite character, he absolutely loves Perrin, is very worried about Rand, and he really enjoys Egwene taking on the Aes Sedi establishment. I'm really looking forward to him getting to the part where Nynaeve loses her block.
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Aug 8, 2023 19:02
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Torrannor posted:These predictions are not really unreasonable, except the Seanchan part I guess. We never really left the general area except to go to the Waste, and Rand's and Alivia's mini excursion into Seanchan. Yeah, he's done pretty good with his guesses. Been way off one some other books but like...it's hard to predict exactly when things will happen in this series. "I think Rand will lose a hand" was something he said two books ago. He's right! Just like...6 books off. His best future predictions so far have been that Moiraine isn't 100% dead and that the forsaken aren't 100% dead either. He made that second one at the end of TDR. He was pleased to be proved (Mostly) right at the start of LoC.
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Aug 11, 2023 04:57
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I could see cutting the mirror world and keeping in the flickers. While the mirror world adds to the weirdness of the setting it could easily be skipped. Agreed. If we don’t get a FLICKER FLICKER I WIN AGAIN LEWS THERIN I’ll be super bummed. The washed out alternate world can be cut.
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Aug 16, 2023 23:08
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Honestly that's pretty much exactly when Moridin pushes the button, it just takes the rest of the world a few months to realize that it's kicked off. Yeah, that's the first time Moridin actively encourages killing Rand. Shortly after "Dashiva" hears that Rand is planning on cleansing the taint is when he makes an attempt on Rand's life. At that point Moridin's only play left was to have Rand destroy the world, which almost worked!
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Aug 21, 2023 18:43
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Rarity posted:Nothing good happens in Path of Daggers I just finished PoD on my reread and the book was way better than I remembered. Perrin bumbling through a meeting with Alliandre and being honest which makes her think he is a master tactician, all while Morgase is watching? Fantastic scene. The use of the bowl and Elayne accidentally mini-nuking the Seanchan? Good stuff. Rand's Vietnam? Good, albeit not for any character who is involved. Elayne hasn't become insufferable yet, but I know it's coming. I remember liking CoT but the parts that I remember really liking all involve Mat. We'll see what I think on this reread. Nthing the other posters who think it's a cool concept, but the execution didn't quite work. It was the second book I had to wait for, and was definitely hoping to get to the fireworks factory. Which we did in AKoD, but the 5 years between Winter's Heart and A Knife of Dreams were too long. "There's a new WoT book! Oh, it's a prequel." Jordan did say that he only worked on/released New Spring when he did because he felt pressured by his publishers, and regretted doing so afterwards. He said he wouldn't release any other prequels until after the series was finished and well...guess we're not getting those.
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Aug 21, 2023 22:07
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Invalid Validation posted:I love the all the chapters where they do the cleansing but it basically amounts to nothing. Rand wasn’t really going mad and would eventually cleanse himself and most of the male channelers basically say they can’t really tell a difference. For something so monumental it should have had sweeping consequences. I guess putting more effort into the black tower like the other goon suggested would have been the correct choice but the black tower needed more focus anyways. He had the cool rear end idea and nowhere to take it. I mean, long-term it's a really big deal. If the dark one is sealed up but the taint is still there, then male channelers will still be hunted down before they can go mad and gently caress up the world.
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Aug 22, 2023 06:10
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These clips have S2 looking very, very promising. I’m guessing they’re mostly from the first few eps we get next week but we’ll see! I also do be glad that Bale Domon is showing up, fortune prick me.
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Aug 24, 2023 15:00
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Jedit posted:Wondering now if they're going to combine Adeleas and Vandene to save on casting. If they keep the Elayne Black Ajah plot that would be…complicated. Be a great plot to cut though. If they do that makes a lot of sense.
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Aug 24, 2023 20:54
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Nynaeve’s parents/daughter are 100% showing up in her accepted test. That’s going to be a great episode, hope it’s one of the first three.
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Aug 26, 2023 19:27
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They could also be taking a cue from the first book, where Rand legitimately thinks that he defeated the dark one (he didn't, oops). Shayol Ghul and etc could show up later once they realize out that they were just being hosed with and tricked into releasing Ishamael. Or not at all. Who knows!
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Aug 29, 2023 13:52
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First three episodes were good, that has me pretty jazzed about the rest of the season. The Seanchan stuff felt the least connected/most rushed but that could still change as the season goes on. Especially once Egwene is made prisoner. Episode three was the best of the bunch imo, even if it was pretty obvious that Nynaeve was still in her test when she first came out. I'm not sure which hits harder, the third test in the books where she has to leave happy/peaceful/loving Lan and her family or the show's version where everybody she loves except her daughter dies before her eyes...and then her daughter just vanishes. The actress who pays Nynaeve is so, so good in the role. Drinking the gross water was so loving on brand in the first episode.
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Sep 1, 2023 05:36
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CainFortea posted:I mean, once you see this scene in Episode 3 I think that answers any and all questions about "Who is this Selene person?" Yeah, her holding him to the door by the throat and telling him to never leave her again (or whatever exactly it was) sure confirmed to me who she really is. I’m wondering if the twist is going to be that we see her getting released next episode, but that happened awhile ago. I’m assuming the note Moiraine got that freaked her out so much was regarding Lanfear being released and her seal being broken
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Sep 1, 2023 17:48
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Also Holy gently caress the TV show is HORNY RJ would approve.
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Sep 2, 2023 01:50
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Loel posted:Not enough spanking The "You'll get switched on your shoulders" is something that would have made him frown...well, maybe. All of the threesomes and Alanna's horniness getting cranked up to 11? Lots of hot middle aged and older women? You know he'd love that.
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Sep 2, 2023 03:26
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:The Wheel of Time turns, and Arguments come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Arguments that gave it birth comes again. In one Page, called the Six Hundred and Fifty-First Page by some, a Page yet to come, a Page long past, a post rose about the great spectre of Tylin. The Post was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning. I went back and read through the entire thread when I thought to finally look for it. RJ sure as heck nailed that everything is cyclical. The same arguments show up, the same refuting points are brought up. There are also a lot of really cool posts interspersed so, could be worse! E: my two cents is RJ was trying to make commentary and ran it by Harriet. Both of them thought levity would be better but it didn’t always track. I still prefer that to Sanderson having Mat wax poetic about her when he kills the Gholam. That bit was all him, and was…not the best. RembrandtQEinstein fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Sep 14, 2023 |
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Sep 14, 2023 22:09
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:This is how you get Ishamael, he just wants to end it all so he never has to hear it again That is how I feel, having read all of those posts in a relatively short time and seeing many of the same posters having the same argument when somebody new brings it up. Break the wheel. End it all.
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Sep 14, 2023 23:14
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nine-gear crow posted:Also who were the other Forsaken that Lanfear namedropped? I'll have to go back and watch the scene myself later but I think I heard Moghedien and Graendal, and "the boys", which is like... Honey, do you have ANY idea how little that narrows it down? Pretty sure that was intentional. That way they get to keep us guessing. Episode was very good, and next ep will likely be even better.
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Sep 15, 2023 04:22
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CainsDescendant posted:Thom killing the king is what really gets the civil war going. Who? I'm not familiar with that character in the Wheel of Time show. Must have been a bit role or something.
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Sep 16, 2023 06:20
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Jedit posted:Yes. We find out about the Nine Moons even before Mat receives the prophecy. You might not know that it's a direct reference to the Empress, but if you've been paying attention you do know it's got something to do with the Seanchan. One of my friends who is currently on his first readthrough picked up on this right away in TSR. I was impressed.
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Sep 27, 2023 05:28
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Grundulum posted:I thought that Nynaeve’s actress was the weak link in the finale. Was pleased with Rand’s performance. Which is wild, because she was one of the highlights in the first half of the season. Meanwhile Egwene's actress didn't get much in the first half, but then just crushed in the second half. Kind of like the books I guess! "Oh Egwene hasn't done anything for awhile? Well, I'm sure she'll get to do a lot in...300 pages."
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Oct 9, 2023 03:48
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His Divine Shadow posted:I agree, I really wanted the first episode to hit certain plot points from the first book there (including the original lews therin scene), showing the village, every day business, how sheltered and naive people of a medieval village wold be, Moiraine and Lan are mysterious visitors etc, Rand seeing the "black rider" now and then, at this point the episode should have a kind of horror movie feel I think, then Rand and his dad chilling in the house, suddenly getting attacked, his dad injured and the first episode could end on Rand trying to drag his dad back to town. I honestly don't have a need to see that big battle in town, a smaller battle at Rands house would have been just fine. The old blood is still strong in the two rivers. I agree that a slower build would have been better, but when you only have 8 episodes and have to cut/shift a ton of things as it is...I get why they had (and showed) winternight in the first ep. I'm cool with the Two Rivers folks fighting back (and still losing) because it sets the tone for what's likely to happen in S3.
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Oct 11, 2023 04:57
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v I suddenly felt the need to vent about this scene despite all this time.
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Data Graham posted:I didn't intend to suggest he wanted to do it It was one of the things that he found in the notes that he had to write because Jordan put it in there, but he really, really, really didn't want to.
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Oct 13, 2023 04:01
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RC Cola posted:Give us 10 episodes Jesus gently caress
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Oct 15, 2023 19:04
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Zore posted:Jordan also explicitly denied Taim was Demandred around Winter's Heart's release. The only thing the note really confirms is that he changed his plans over the course of writing the novels which isn't exactly shocking. That, plus Demandred had no clue who Damer was, and if he was Taim he would have known. FWIW the guy who said he “Found it in the files” was the biggest “TAIM IS DEMANDRED” person on dragonmount/theoryland so I take it with an inkling of salt. Certainly a possibility early on, but it also could be the early note was from before Taim even showed up and Jordan had since changed his mind. E: Roedran showing up at Merrill’s in AMoL and Rand going “Huh, I thought it was you” was Sanderson including his own theory/a popular fan theory into the story. Demandred essentially doing what Rand was doing in the Westlands but in the far larger Shara actually works super well (since he is hyper competent and “Could have been the dragon” back in the Age of Legends) and Shara gets enough mentions for them showing up at the last battle a super fun surprise. RembrandtQEinstein fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Nov 15, 2023 |
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Nov 15, 2023 01:53
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Shageletic posted:lol Memory of Light reads like dispatches from the Civil War. Short descriptions and alot of movements and two page poo poo storms. I like it! Fits Sanderson's writing well. Though I am worried he's not gonna land/has missed opportunities for the people from the outside reacting to momentous/anime thing that Jordan was so good at. Things just keep on chugging on (horribly). I firmly believe that if RJ had finished it on his own the last battle section wouldn't have been nearly as long as it was. I think that conceptually it's a cool idea to make a Last Battle chapter 9 hours on the audiobook (and like 15k words) so you as a reader feel the exhaustion that the characters feel but... It's definitely a bit much. I know that decision was firmly Sanderson, and it definitely plays more into his style with the quick jumps.
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Nov 26, 2023 03:29
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NeurosisHead posted:Officially his self insert was the library ter'angreal that the wondergirls recovered in Ebou Dar Also Loial/Thom. Shageletic posted:Man it's a shame that so much of the Last Battle hinges on fighting a slavering monolithic horde that literally breeds to get its number up. Iirc Tolkien regretted that he made the orcs that way. It's just makes the battles so much flatter. I really wish we would have been able to get the post-series book that he had an idea of that was Mat in Seanchan basically ending their system of slavery. All that was written down was like, two sentences so it'll never happen.
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Nov 27, 2023 02:47
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CainFortea posted:I never thought of Galad as being the chiseled jaw manly man type of beauty. If anyone was gonna look like the anime prince trope I thought it'd be him. Yeah, same. He's supposed to be an obnoxiously beautiful man who is also hilariously deadly. Not the big strong jawed rugged guy. He's still very good looking obv but just in a different way than I always pictured. If they give him longer hair and keep him clean shaven then maybe it could work?
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Nov 30, 2023 05:24
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Shageletic posted:More seriously the showrunner mentioned that he got 1000 different script notes for the pilot from Amazon producers trying to get their thumb in. Its hard to tell what he and the writing room has control over but it has been 2 seasons already, so maybe that's enough to just say it's not for you. Knowing that they had to fight hard to keep the "Weep for Manetheren" scene makes me think yeah, a chunk of it are notes. For S2 obviously a chunk of it is the actor playing Mat leaving (Rafe said he wanted to do the boys hunting for the horn but well...couldn't realistically do that with the corner they had written themselves into with him not being in the last two episodes of S1). Plus timing. It should really be 10-13 episodes. S2 is good though (with some bits being truly great), but it's not the 1:1 adaptation some people want. I'm hoping for a 14 season anime sometime in my life for the 1:1 adaptation but who knows if that'll happen.
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Dec 3, 2023 18:51
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