Gundam Thread 5: That's no Anime, boy! No Anime!

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > Gundam Thread 5: That's no Anime, boy! No Anime!

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golden bubble posted:

Having clean streets everywhere is actually a problem. If they made it clear that this is the Gundam equivalent of the Shanghai International Settlement, that's fine. But that level of public services does not appear in colonial oppression. Fascist oppression could do it, but colonialist oppression is too busy looting all the non-elite areas to prevent the population from openly starving to death. Because historically, colonialism is contains some of greatest famines in world history. Federation does not have to be good guys, but they do not visually look like colonial oppressors. Gjallarhorn has the visual imagery of colonial oppressors. The Federation gets something more like slacker fascism.

I think part of the issue here is that "colony" is being used in a different sense than you are using it; the Federation did not go and conquer independent space nations, it literally created terra nullius and settled it with people who were given some limited self-regulatory powers. There isn't really a direct precedent for this in history.

To be clear this doesn't mean the EF was bad but this is a failure of 20th/21st-century concepts.

# ¿ Mar 16, 2018 07:36

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 16:16

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Arcsquad12 posted:

Does Zeon apologia extend beyond Japan? Because pretty much everyone in this thread, myself included, gets a rather strong reaction to the more "Zeon wasn't so bad" series in the franchise.

Other than the novelty of an independence movement being portrayed as the bad guys, I've always thought Zeon was comprehensible but never "good." The notes of their ideology are weird but the pattern is recognizable.

I figure a whole shitload of the Zeon love and hate and complication is because Zeon seems to really clearly be imperial Japan and it isn't like Japanese history prior to 1930 was erased from existence.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2018 08:45

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Isn't "Newtype" actually kind of a joke term in setting? Like Deikum predicted a "new type" of humanity, so every scam artist and biofeedback nerd got called a "new type" sarcastically; then when they actually did find emergent spatial/empathic abilities, that stuck?

As for it being a unique superpower ubermensch thing, it seems to be the result of coming from a disenfranchised population ruled by a minority... but then that just must make it even more despicable!

# ¿ Apr 7, 2018 09:41

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Sharkopath posted:

There's a really good part in it that deals with casual racism in a realistic and grounded way that resonated with me a lot.

And then some posters were angry that the racism wasnt like full on hollywood movie overt racism so it was bad writing.

Remembering that and laughing.

A whole lot of people think to leap immediately to "bad writing" when they don't like something. I mean, sometimes the writing is actually bad, but it is possible to enjoy bad writing and not enjoy good writing.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2018 22:25

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BattleMaster posted:

I guess I just don't "get" theatre because I don't see how something that involves wars with giant robots is supposed to work on a stage.

I assume you could animate some mecha action for key portions and project it on a screen in the middle, with spotlights illuminating the relevant "cockpit" as the actors do their thing.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2018 03:46

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3 posted:

Considering I don't see the indisputably best mobile suit in the top ten, much less any other section of the list as far as I can tell, I think we can safely dismiss this entire exercise as a farce of the highest order.

That suit thinks it's better than me, so I'm going to hate it on the Internet for fifteen years!

# ¿ May 8, 2018 20:30

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chiasaur11 posted:

I've got two words for you.

One is Zeta.

The other is... also Zeta.

On the one hand, it does have the hated Newtype, and on the other hand, I'm told reliably it's not an anime, and should be taken to be true.

I appreciate the abrupt shift in Yazan, too.

# ¿ May 11, 2018 08:14

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The Notorious ZSB posted:

Gundam X is very meh. but yeah the two sides wasted each other so hard people forgot space was a real thing anymore. newtypes are dolphins, but our hero ain't one he's just very empathetic and gentlemanly.

My impression, largely got secondhand, is that Gundam X involves a lot of people looking at the camera and saying Newtypes are mutant cripples. What's actually up with how it's presented there, if it's presented at all?

# ¿ May 27, 2018 07:32

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Arcsquad12 posted:

I want to see a Gundam show without mobiru soots that focuses on civilians going about their normal lives and watching the latest war on TV until a shell casing the size of a truck falls through their ceiling.

What, and you'll just stop there instead of showing their death and agony over the course of five episodes in real time? Way to whitewash war.

# ¿ Jun 3, 2018 01:36

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The medical relief thing makes a lot of sense, and you'd even have room for a little MS action if the hospital ship has like two GMs to ward off pirates and Judau.

# ¿ Jun 3, 2018 03:43

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Colonies are "more" destructible than a planetary surface but the factor wasn't that different. It might be psychologically influential to know that space is literally just outside, of course. Maybe undergraduates write papers about how the windowless setup in Side 3 made them feel less vulnerable.

As for the places looking pretty livable, it's possible the Federation was using a mass production plan that was generous in a lot of ways and the colony population didn't balloon massively and immediately because they were already post-industrial. I imagine you'd get a lot less resistance to colony relocation if the places were visually pleasant and comfortable.

The real mindfuck is that the Earth Federation built them at all. That poo poo is really rather crazy when you think about it. Given how many colonies there are, and that they all got built over, what, fifty or sixty years?

# ¿ Jun 7, 2018 13:03

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I suppose if Zeon was doing that dire poo poo to try to intimidate the other colonies, it kind of shows the farcial and self-defeating nature of "do something incredibly vicious to scare the other guy into doing what you want."

# ¿ Jun 21, 2018 00:42

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Marx Headroom posted:

Heck even if I was a supergenius guerilla building a mobile Dead Hand I'd probably use my huge brain to build in an Off switch for my friends just in case my weapon successfully destroys my enemies

Friends! Now that�s unrealistic. Friends are very tactically unrealistic.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2018 21:27

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Perhaps they can revise the entire thing so the Federation is just US special forces and Zeon is actually ISIS. Elite operator Amuro Ray liberates Casbah al-Daikum's hippie bride, tells her all this psychic stuff is nonsense, and then shoots the Black Muslim Tri-Stars.

"How did he break through our perimeter?" "Gun!" "drat!"

ninjewtsu posted:

Wasn't there a tomino interview not too long ago in this thread where tomino said "char was originally gonna be a pretty generic rival, but then my stupid character designer gave him a mask and then I was forced to make him a compelling character based off hiding his identity"

Was that the Five Star Stories dude? I heard there was some kind of elaborate cuckold drama with Tomino, him, and Maria Kawamura.

# ¿ Jul 31, 2018 10:21

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Darth Walrus posted:

The helmet is a perfectly normal Zeon officer�s helmet. The mask is the only unusual part.

Space Nazis just got some wild fashion sense, is all.

I low key like how they mostly have uniforms like that instead of a bunch of boring-rear end tactical realism poo poo. (Though I recall actual infantry wore reasonably colored stuff.)

# ¿ Jul 31, 2018 21:19

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Arcsquad12 posted:

I really like the look of Palau's colony setup. When you're using asteroids as anchors you've got two options: prop a Stanford Torus station on the surface or hollow out a spot for an O'Neill Cylinder, and Palau does the latter. I've been watching a series in YouTube called Outward Bound where a guy who sounds like a physicist Elmer Fudd describes ways we could colonize the solar system and turning resource drained asteroids into colony anchors was one of the most practical options he proposed.

Yeah, the idea of "since we can make comfortable artificial habitats in space, everyone should live there instead of making GBS threads up Earth" is pretty credible if you have the former squared away, and the UC does!

# ¿ Jul 31, 2018 23:28

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It's hard to say this far out but it would seem like the power move would be to focus on the One Year War, yeah.

I wonder if they'll whitewash Lalah.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2018 06:42

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Arcsquad12 posted:

Whitewashing Gundam seems especially stupid considering just how varied and multinational the shows often were with their characters. Ryu is a fat mexican man and I won't hear anything else.

Yeah there's some wiggle room but Lalah is explicitly Indian. Really Amuro could be any ethnicity, John Bodega could do fine.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2018 07:15

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ninjewtsu posted:

does UC ever visit the site of the colony that dropped on australia? is there a sick shot (not of a map) of the impossibly huge crater as a mood piece to drive home the existential threat that another colony drop represents?

Early in 0083 they pass over Sydney Crater Bay.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2018 10:18

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tsob posted:

I also watched the scene of all the Zeon remnants getting the coded message and I'm just wondering why all these remnants who've been living in hiding for years are all still wearing their Zeon uniforms on what is supposed to be a regular day until they get that message. And all the uniforms appear to be in great condition despite how long it's been since the war. That's some loving dedication. And stupidity, since surely any passing civilian not affiliated would see them and go "Hmm...this might be worth saying something to someone about".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroo_Onoda

And those Zekes were only there for like four years!

# ¿ Aug 3, 2018 01:07

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EthanSteele posted:

Complete Psychopath Char sounds neat as an interpretation, but part of what makes OG Char interesting to me personally as a character is pretty much that he isn't that, or at worstdoesn't start as that.

"Psychopath" is overused these days anyway.

Also, newtype flashes are an ASMR thing.

# ¿ Aug 31, 2018 11:54

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Arcsquad12 posted:

Beyond the coffee shop owner in Unicorn, do many shows or side stories really go into the fact that the Earth still has an immense population of impoverished lower class citizens? The few times White Base encounters civilians in 0079 it makes sense that they're struggling given the damage caused by the war, but there isn't much that I've seen about the lower class earthborn who still live there.

My point is the zeon ideology that Earth is populated by only the social elites is a big fat lie, and Origin Char, at least, knows that given his time on earth.

My impression is that Earth is transitioning heavily towards being boutique resort luxury living for the Federation elite, plus the inevitable undercaste of proletarians needed to make the boutique resort luxury living possible. However this was an ongoing demographic transition and not a complete deal, so it's not like Earth was down to just the rich and the rich's servants *yet*.

Everyone else probably got packed off to space with various levels of incentive ("cheap house! good job! does voting really do anything anyway?") and coercion ("three traffic tickets? you're going to Side 5")

# ¿ Sep 2, 2018 21:24

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Darth Walrus posted:

Char definitely wants to get people into space to become Newtypes in Zeta. It�s the whole reason the Argama has kids on board.

What a jerk! He should give those children agonizing cyborg implants, like God intended.

As for Deikun, didn't he actually not say much about what a 'new type of human' would be, and 'Newtype' kind of became a generic eyerolly term for anybody claiming paranormal abilities - which of course did not end when people moved to space, humans being humans - until the term got applied to the ACTUAL spatial/empathic/telepathic phenomenon that can fly the Gundam good? I remember hearing that but I forget from where. The novels?

# ¿ Sep 3, 2018 10:13

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VolticSurge posted:

Case in point. Skip to the 50 second mark for the full effect.

This is just a riff on the national anthem of Saudi Arabia.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2018 08:44

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I think the UC Sides are also like zones orbiting the LG points, not the points themselves. I'm not sure what the advantage of this is, though it does seem like it might be more space efficient and perhaps not require as much station-keeping fuel? Colonies are already probably tracked by computer if you're going from one to the other.

Anyway here is a useful pair of images:

# ¿ Sep 11, 2018 10:55

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Shinjobi posted:

I was content with Kamille, Judau and Amuro being three of the strongest Newtype individuals since the franchise has repeatedly tried to say "combat is not what Newtypes are inherently supposed to be for." Like, the concept of a fighting Newtype and how terrifying they could be was fine but pretty well explored. I'm just seriously tired of the franchise being LOOK WHAT THE NEWTYPES CAN DO NOW!

just make a UC Gundam where Newtypes are around but not necessarily the ace pilot/tool of war. I'm ready to see more civilian Newtype life, honestly. I fully understand my complaints don't really make sense in the giant robot franchise hellbent on finding excuses to make new robots.

Yeah but how are you gonna sell the robots?

Solution: Newtype captain in charge of caring for a team of extremely skilled pilots with personality disorders (who are not themselves newtypes, mostly). Easy as poo poo, especially if you make the captain a hot lady.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2018 09:07

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ninjewtsu posted:

He is pretending to have space-eye problems that require corrective glasswear. The helmet make more sense than glasses for a pilot, but less sense than contact lenses

It would've made more sense if we saw a couple other guys in helmets like that, even if they were of course very different than Char. That makes it look like an uncommon but known medical appliance.

# ¿ Dec 24, 2018 07:36

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I figured part of why Newtypes happened so fast in evolutionary terms is that it was a latent thing that mostly didn't matter when your soul was bound by gravity but developed a lot more readily in the space-colony environment. Like the psychic equivalent of not having childhood diseases and being fed a nourishing diet throughout your childhood.

Also without big amplifying machines it seems to be tele-empathy and spatial awareness, which are both a lot easier to overlook than "TK Crusher".

# ¿ Feb 4, 2019 22:20

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tsob posted:

What you're asking is what the limits and capabilities of a platform would be, then. Which has almost nothing to do with the value of putting the best physically and commercially viable power source in said platform, because people will almost always use the latest physically and commercially viable power source for something. Which Minovsky reactors in UC are. They're obviously not super rare or unfeasibly expensive for military platforms, because they're in use in lots of units. Mobile suits, mobile armor, mobile pods (the Ball) and battleships all use them at the very least. The core fighter probably uses one too, since it's listed as using a "fusion generator" and forms the core of the Gundam. We never see the listed power sources for more minor units like Gaws, Dopps, Saberfish etc. but it's not unreasonable that they mount Minovsky reactors either, given that they can be fitted in smallish units like Balls and probably core fighters.

Yeah, fusion power seems as cheap and ubiquitous in the UC setting as gas engines are nowadays, if not more so.

UC is low key tremendously advanced in a lot of technological fields, but in what may be a stroke of realism, everyone's bored with that so instead they focus on murdering the enemy and torturing children! :v:

# ¿ Mar 31, 2019 22:26

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I thought Zeon went out to decapitate all the Fed-friendly colony sides and also the Feds tried to fight back with their navy, which incidentally popped or gassed a shitload of colonies.

# ¿ May 10, 2019 02:41

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MonsieurChoc posted:

I always felt that, as problematic as things got in older Gundam shows, they still had better women characters than more recent outings. SeeD and 00 were pretty bad, and so was Unicorn now that I think about it. Early IBo was dire but apparently it gets better after I dropped it.

G-Reco being a time-displaced show form the 70s/80s brought back that weir dbalanc ebetween good and problematic the early Gundams had.

My read for the older shows is that while they were embedded in a worse matrix, they were making deliberate efforts (other than Reccoa)

# ¿ May 28, 2019 22:16

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The Zaku thing is funny because I remember hearing that one of the Nazi ideas for how to deal with the Soviet T-34 tank was "let's just make it ourselves? Obviously some details will be different but it's a real good tank." I believe this plan was rejected as being far too sensible for German procurement.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2019 02:25

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chiasaur11 posted:

X-Omega's basically had everything, though.

They put in Space Battleship Tiramisu and Little Witch Academia, for reference.

Did they give Akko the Shiny Gundam?

# ¿ Jul 19, 2019 09:02

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Darth Walrus posted:

I think it was more that he had the hots for Mamoru Nagano's wife, who either wasn't interested or straight-up didn't notice.

Wasn't the story on this one that Maria Kawamura was Reccoa, and when Mamoru Nagano started making time with her, Tomino dumpstered Reccoa's character arc? Like I think Kawamura and Nagano got married around then.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2019 12:41

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Schneider Heim posted:

How's the new Gundam mobile game? Any good? I'm playing like 3 different gacha games so I wanna see if I could fit it in.

I got a Beargguy head in my first free draw so I'm pretty sure I won.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2019 06:02

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HitTheTargets posted:

Which Gundam character is closest to Tidus in the FF10 laughing scene?

Char, he came here to laugh at you!

# ¿ Aug 21, 2019 01:49

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Have it be post-Zeta Amuro, have him date Misato and become Shinji's father.

For extra credit, have him hold Gendo up with his Char-shootin' gun.

For extra EXTRA credit, have him do it with his good friend Quattro Vagina.

# ¿ Aug 21, 2019 21:57

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drrockso20 posted:

Not really that random considering Team Rocket has been one giant reference to Time Bokan from the very beginning

Yeah the dynamic of a hot lady and two doofuses is like a cosmic pattern now.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2019 00:19

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Wark Say posted:

And now I'm wondering: Which Gundam Ace would be able to last against Maximilian Jenius the longest?

Cima Garahau, because they'd end up getting married.

# ¿ Sep 27, 2019 07:26

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 16:16

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Kanos posted:

I'm pretty sure Cima could beat Max in a knife fight.

Ah, but she might have lost at the video game stage.

# ¿ Sep 27, 2019 08:34

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