LinkesAuge posted:

But he didn't even "learn" that the Sith have the ability to save people from dying, he just heard a myth (are we supposed to think of Anakin as literal child who believes every story he is told?). Palpatine didn't offer him any powers, there was no proof that he could actually have such a power nor does he even know if the Sith still exist or who they are (up until that certain moment).
It's all just so flimsy as excuse for him to turn to the dark side. Sure he had bad visions about his wife but that's really not enough as justification/motivation, not to mention that it makes it even more stupid that he is in the end the one who hurts his wife. The whole way he acts and then "decides" to join the dark side doesn't feel organic. It's not even a real decission, his "turn" was more of an impulse. That might seem human on one hand but on the other hand it also made it way less dramatic than it could have been. Anakin stumbled to the dark side instead of being seduced by it. I know that some people will argue that's how it was supposed to be and everything else is just fan fiction in the minds of SW fans but it certainly doesn't add any sympathy towards Anakin and takes gravitas away from the whole story.
Until today I don't understand why Lucas wasted two movies before finally starting to tell the story of how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader (and yes that was THE reason to be excited for the prequels). On top of that the big dramatic moment wasn't even well setup for the final movie. Padme wasn't put in danger, there is no conflict between Anakin and Obi-Wam/the Jedi, Palpatine still hadn't revealed himself or really started to turn Anakin, Anakin himself was still 100% in the Jedi camp (and yes some teeny bitching about Obi-Wan doesn't change that) and hardly showed any character development or growth as person (in whatever direction). Parts of Dooku's character for example would have worked well with Anakin. There you have a former Jedi who was disappointed/felt betrayed by the Jedi and thus turned to the dark side. Why introduce such an additional character when you are already trying to tell the story of Darth Vader? I get the need for a big "villain" but having Dooku and Grievous was just unecessary and messy. I guess the problem was already in the pacing of the prequels. Setting the first film so far behind the other two was always going to cause problems in regards to story telling, the time gap was simply too big for a more cohesive story and while it was a good moment in TPM in hindsight it would have been better to keep Darth Maul around for the 2nd movie.
That way Anakin could have had his big moment in the 2nd movie against Maul with plenty of possibilities to create a dramatic story around it (revenge for Quin-Gon or whatever else Maul might have done in the 1st/2nd movie) and more importantly show more of the relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan/the Jedi instead of wasting your screen time on all kinds of other plots (and I don't even mean the relationship with Padme, that's fine, even necessary to humanize Anakin though I wish it would have been done competently and with actors that had at least some chemistry with each other on screen). Also let Palpatine be more active instead of giving that screen time to Dooku and Grievous. Let him actually seduce Anakin. We got hints of that in the 3rd movie and those were among the best scenes in the prequels but it was too little and too late.
There was never a need for Palpatine to be the biggest undercover master manipulator in space history. His identity doesn't need to be a secret until the third movie. It could have already been revealed in the 2nd movie (at least to some people) and then be used to escalate the story a lot sooner (and there are still enough ways to get Palpatine into power). You could even have used that reveal in showing how ineffective the Jedi have become, not just to the audience but especially to Anakin. Give him an actual side he can turn to/be seduced by instead of this vague background threat the Sith were in the first two prequel movies which was imo one of the biggest problems of the prequels. It not only made the Jedi look more stupid than plausible but it also created problems for the story because Lucas constantly had to invent new factions and characters he could throw at Anakin and the Jedi despite Palpatine/the Sith being the most interesting and the whole "reason" for the prequels in the first place.
The original movies were about those two big forces (pun intended) with the Rebellion being a lot more in the background (sometimes literally being in the background) while the prequels pushed the Republic and the Separatists right into our faces (including their politics) and made the Jedi/the Sith side characters. That's just bad if your main character is Anakin/Darth Vader and not some Star Wars space politician and your famous factions are the Jedi and Sith and not space parties. Do all of that if you want to tell the story of Bail Organa but keep it to a minimum if you want to tell an epic scfi-fantasy story and not a political drama.

ImpAtom posted:

This is really not complex. A 'canon' story is one that other stories recognize.

ImpAtom posted:

Beyond the fact that the prequel trilogy did actually acknowledge at least one part of the EU, there were also television shows, video games and other material which absolutely recognized the EU in fairly significant ways. If you liked Mara Jade there were two video games where you could play as her.

ImpAtom posted:

The capital city of Coruscant first appeared in Timothy Zahn's novel, matching (roughly) what is presented in Phantom Menace back in 1991. No amount of "it's not the same" will change the fact that the films did recognize the EU to some degree if just in that one specific way. Fans felt like, more or less, the movies and the EU were interconnected.

You're trying to make some point about how the EU wasn't the central focus of the films which is correct but also utterly meaningless to the people who actually care that the EU was revamped. There was over a decade where a sustained established EU was presented and people became fans of it. The fact that it was canonical (and it was canonical, there was a long stupid hierarchy of canon) was part of the appeal and also meant the EU kept going.

I don't personally care and I dislike the idea that films should be bound to the mindless bullshit established in a terrible tie-in novel or whatever but if someone enjoyed something it is understandable they are disappointed that it was cancelled and will no longer be recognized by material that used to recognize it. (Such as, again, games, comics, other books or the films themselves.)

ImpAtom posted:

Yes there is. The entirety of characters who were introduced in the post-RotJ EU are completely gone now. The next time a game comes out you can bet that Chewbacca wasn't crushed by a moon and Jaina and Jacen Solo won't exist. If you liked any of those characters or concepts like the Yuuzhan Vong or whatever they're gone and (thank god) not coming back. They are replaced by Starkiller Base and Kylo Ren and whatever other things the new films do. There's probably stuff that will trickle over if just through sheer fanboy desperation but yes, everything in the old EU is finished and it is never coming back.

ukle posted:

Reports were they had to remove most of the scenes between Maz and Han as Lupita Nyong couldn't get the hang of portraying a 3D generated character, so her performance was poo poo.

EL BROMANCE posted:

The best C3PO bit is simply him cock blocking Han and ruining a tender moment. My emotions had to do a complete 180 in the space of nano seconds.

Also I'm just curious, does the film feel like it needed a PG-13/12A cert to people? I can't remember anything particularly 'not-PG' happening. The blood hand print is the worst, but I'm possibly forgetting something? All children should see this.

rockopete posted:

Actually you could argue this works because the skeletons have been reanimated by magic, so it makes sense they would move unnaturally. Which goes back to my point that I'm a big dumb idiot

Panfilo posted:

So Nien Numb of all characters is the only one to blow up two super weapons in his career? He was Landos copilot taking down Death Star II and he was part of Blue Squadron taking down Starkiller base.

Also it might have already been mentioned but I guess Fin must be the only monolingual human in the galaxy. Pretty funny to have a character that didn't understand Robotish.

Vintersorg posted:

I'm glad tezzor is here cause they say everything I can't.

Waffles Inc. posted:

Instead of being a prick why not contribute something of value on the topic if you disagree with Cnut on this reading? Any interesting textual evidence to backup your obvious disagreement regarding a Grievous / Vader parallel?

euphronius posted:

Uh

Anakin killed the Emperor so the prophecy was right.

euphronius posted:

Yeah and thank god he did. The Jedi were terrible.

Also he didn't kill all the Jedi now did he.

euphronius posted:

I think most people would agree killing baby Hitler would be moral? This was a topic in the republican primary iirc.

euphronius posted:

I was serious though about not killing all the Jedi. He does not kill Luke or more accurately let him die. Which was important.

Beeez posted:

sometimes philosophies or theories try to add an air of respectability or intellectual fortitude to their claims by using excessive verbosity

CelticPredator posted:

CelticPredator posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvc9_GDoWI4

Tender Bender posted:

Tezzor is a loving terrible poster who shits up every page of this thread with literally thousands of words that are all saying "I'm unable to understand the simplest film conventions or cinematic language on any level".

Vintersorg posted:

Your word is law?

EDIT: I'm all for looking deeper into things and cool viewpoints. But these are presented as facts and if you dont believe / understand / accept that viewpoint - you are told, "well, I guess you just don't like the movies afterall."

Jack Gladney posted:

The single criterion for canonicity in the present age is whether poo poo is any good. That Alien franchise box set should be two discs.

jivjov posted:

Or you can enjoy the aspect of having a consistent, canonical, ongoing narrative.

I mean, if someone wants to take ever single entry in the series as completely unconnected to everything else, that's fine. But for me (and a lot of other fans), having a continuity to which things adhere is just part of the experience. Don't poo poo on my parade and I won't poo poo on yours.

rear end Catchcum posted:

Wait human beings actually liked Prometheus? I thought it was just SMG.

Red posted:

Why would you do this? In THIS thread?


IM3 is the worst MCU film made to date.

CelticPredator posted:

Also, TMP has very good effects. Best in the whole prequels. That isn't a diss. Those effects look great and hold up.

PBS Newshour posted:

they spent too much time making the real stuff look real guys

Yaws posted:

I dunno, it always sorta bothered me how cynical the prequels are. The republic is a direct analogy to liberal democracies and it's portrayed as a corrupt bloated mess. Easily manipulated and brought to it's knees by an old bureaucrat.

turtlecrunch posted:

We found this out a month before the movie came out.
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/11/12/star-wars-andy-serkis-supreme-leader-snoke