Middle East Thread: Clarissa Explains the Fall

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread: Clarissa Explains the Fall

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Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Volkerball posted:

I didn't realize this thread was so open minded about highways of death.

ftfy

# ¿ Nov 27, 2017 09:32

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 20:33

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

I have a number of left wing, "westernized", secular Iranian friends who hate the current Iranian government. To the last one they all agree they would quite willingly go home to Iran and take up arms to kill the MEK if they invade Iran. They're a total dead end.

# ¿ Jan 1, 2018 11:10

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Willie Tomg posted:

Genocide is a thing. Things can be unconscionable war crimes--such as using sarin on a civilian area, or using food as a weapon--without being genocide.

This always devolves into one side using the technical/legal definition of genocide, and the others using an emotive/non-legal meaning, and the two sides screeching at each other about how the other is siding with the murderers or is too stupid to understand how lawyers talk, etc.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2018 09:55

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

I once was set up on a blind date with a female engineer from Lebanon, who swore that Israel had used nuclear weapons in the 1982 invasion, that she had seen the explosions and mushroom clouds with her own eyes as a girl. My response was if she had looked directly at a nuclear explosion she would be blind, and that any large explosion will produce a mushroom cloud. She wasn't changing her mind... short date.

# ¿ May 15, 2018 08:41

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

FAUXTON posted:

engineers are always like this

I'm an engineering physics major. I also know Bruce Salem, and a professor at the University of Ediacara. So not all.

# ¿ May 15, 2018 17:53

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Brown Moses posted:

I mention that in the post, every chemistry expert I spoke to seemed to think it would be an extremely bad idea, the sarin would be impure, so it would be a whole cocktail of chemicals interacting with chlorine gas under pressure. Keep in mind Sarin is a liquid, not a gas, so it's not just a matter of swapping one gas line with another when filling it up.

As far as anyone can tell there's no explosive charge used to rupture the cylinders, it just relies on impact.

Dan Kaszeta wrote about Sarin byproducts in this piece, and these are the three products found in the Saraqib samples (MPA, IMPA, and DIMP)

So it points pretty firmly to Sarin being present.

As Wikipedia points out, there is no known commercial use for DIMP. Unless some insane person is fertilizing his fields with Sarin (or, I guess, with chemical waste from making Sarin), the only route to get it there is from a weapon.

The likely munitions, from the OPCW report, burst open on impact from kinetic effects, not from an explosion. The tanks were, IIRC, 6mm thick steel walled. Drop from a height with liquid Cl2 inside.

Liquid halogens and organophosphates sounds like it could go "strongly exothermic" but I'm not an expert on reaction kinetics of nerve gases...

I really think I want to get involved in looking at this stuff more seriously. My chemical engineering degree is a couple decades old but this stuff is basic level stuff, and it is an affront to have people making trivially disprovable claims online.

# ¿ May 18, 2018 21:17

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

A note: the OPCW describes the containers as 100-120 litres, of typically used to hold liquified gases. The grass around one of the containers was brown or dry. I bet if you spilled liquified chlorine on grass it'd kill it.

http://www.amazingrust.com/Experiments/how_to/Liquid_Cl2.html

Vapor pressure of pure liquid chlorine at 70 F is like 83 psig. Propane tanks are good to way more than this (like 300 psig).

If it was liquid chlorine:
Density of liquid chlorine at 60 F is about 1.42 g /cc so 100 litres is like 142 kilos. Assume the tank is filled 80% liquid/ 20 gas like a propane tank, you're around 110 kilos of liquid chlorine. Molar weight of diatomic chlorine is 35.5 g/mol so that's 3100 moles. Using ideal gas law, at STP that will be 69500 litres of chlorine gas. It'll boil off, not explode...

If you had just 100 litres of gas at 300 psig, that's like 20 atm. So 2000 litres of chlorine gas. Big difference.

Maybe you could put liquid sarin in with liquid chlorine... I'll let someone else try it.

# ¿ May 18, 2018 21:58

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Darth Walrus posted:

No, I know these things are knocked open kinetically, but that still results in a lot of sarin suddenly getting exposed to a lot of chlorine. Which should cause a big boom. And yet, apparently no evidence of a boom was found.

The lack of a perceived boom makes me think the chlorine was liquified with a vapor pressure of 80 psi, not compressed gas at 300 psi. But that's minor.

I can't find yet anything good on the expected reaction of (liquid) sarin to liquid chlorine. I mean, hell, it might not react much.

# ¿ May 19, 2018 08:09

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

RandomPauI posted:

What about a delayed release?

Edit: Or a mechanism so one gets released from one compartment, then the other one releases on impact?

The pics in the OPCW report show substantial mechanical deformation, but I am puzzled that traces of TNT were found on the second cylinder, making me think it went boom.

# ¿ May 19, 2018 08:12

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Bernard Lewis died.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/21/obituaries/bernard-lewis-islam-scholar-dies.html

# ¿ May 21, 2018 22:43

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

HorrificExistence posted:

https://www.rt.com/news/427948-russian-military-advisers-syria/

4 Russian soldiers killed, making this month the worst for Russian forces in Syria since the intervention began.

Excluding the Wagner Group...

# ¿ May 27, 2018 11:49

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

I suppose there is a, shall we call it a 'realpolitik' argument, that if you totally ignore anything internal to Syria, it was less trouble to every other country to have Assad in full control. If you ignore the mass torture and murder of his own people, having ferret face in charge was "better" as a crushed, submissive population didn't affect other countries compared to the eruption of violence and refugees and so on has done.

But it's at best a morally empty position that strips the Syrian people of agency, and quite repulsive to think about approving, at least to me.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2018 07:31

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Crowsbeak posted:

Really Morally Empty? I mean is it morally right for the USA to overthrow various countries and leave the peoples of those countries worse off then they were before American invasion?

The question has nothing to do with my prior statement.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2018 14:42

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Allegedly they've found body parts...

# ¿ Oct 23, 2018 15:23

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

pangstrom posted:

Let's duct tape ourselves together and go swimming is a long-standing USA tradition OK?

How much Saudi money is that post worth, Brown Moses?

He's really paid by Assad.

# ¿ Nov 2, 2018 06:44

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

LeoMarr posted:

Tell me if you will which countries you find do not commit "crimes of inhumanity" on some level id love to see your list

On the other hand, the ones most logically responsible for criticizing American war-crimes are American citizens (and US taxpayers generally).

# ¿ Nov 16, 2018 08:07

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

svenkatesh posted:

At least Assad gives them their day in court.

ISIS and Al-Qaeda decapitate civilians for not having good enough beards (for men) or showing too much ankle (for women).

Get tae gently caress, you.

# ¿ Dec 24, 2018 20:39

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

No barbarism to justify.

I think one particular forums poster might disagree with you on that point from personal experience.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2019 05:29

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

Her, thanks.

It.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ Jun 26, 2019 17:11

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

mediadave posted:

The problem with that idea is that secular Iranians are if anything more nationalist and revanchist than religious Iranians.

Secular Iranians love dreaming of the Greater Persian Empire.

I have never met an Iranian who even mentioned this in discussing politics. Source?

Ed: you a Volkerball alt maybe?

# ¿ Sep 19, 2019 10:43

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:

Let alone it's just been proved that the main part of the Saudi economy can be destroyed in the first few hours of a hot war and there's gently caress all anyone can do about it.

Or make the Straight of Hormuz a tanker graveyard.

SURELY its 100% clear now Iran can do a fuckton of damage to everyone if the USA or the Saudi are dumb enough to go hot.

How much Saudi oil does the USA import?

# ¿ Sep 19, 2019 12:15

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Tab8715 posted:

I think the US is an exporter, it would be like the previous 70s energy crisis but I would expect prices to skyrocket especially for Europe.

So big money for US oil firms

# ¿ Sep 19, 2019 15:02

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Lightning Knight posted:

I wonder how many times a week somebody at the WH has to talk him down from demanding a nuclear strike.

I wonder how many times a week somebody at the WH has to talk Daniel Dale out of killing himself.

I mean he went from covering Rob Ford to covering Donald Trump.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2019 18:40

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Oooh, Clancychat time. Yay.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2019 06:14

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Book review in the latest NYRB on Peter Hessler's book on recent events in Egypt

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2019/10/10/egypt-between-order-and-chaos/

# ¿ Oct 5, 2019 14:04

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

If assad wanted to genocidw the kurds he would have waited a while longer to provide aid to the kurdish cause.

Assad's choice is "Do I want to genocide the Kurds now, and lose big chunks of land to the Turks, or just grab land now and maybe kill Kurds later?"

# ¿ Oct 15, 2019 11:58

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

I feel it is still important to remind the thread that Joribaman is still some poo poo.

# ¿ Oct 22, 2019 00:14

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Frond posted:

To be fair, it’s a really lovely tweet.

Precisely how?

# ¿ Oct 28, 2019 20:16

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Brown Moses posted:

We did a video with Newsy on Turkish backed forces executing civilians on the M4 highway:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQKxXmeNu6Q

I just feel clicking that link will upset me beyond belief.

# ¿ Oct 31, 2019 17:27

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Those wily but child-like Arabs, needing a strong dictator to rule them, eh, WCG?

# ¿ Dec 1, 2019 10:40

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

More calm, dispassionate, and accurate analysis from WCG, our Walter Cronkite. Get this man a Pullitzer.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2019 08:13

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Sergg posted:

Who's occupying those positions?

You're responding to an unsourced WCG claim.

# ¿ Dec 22, 2019 10:42

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Mozi posted:

The question now, more than what led that AA group to launch the missiles, is why air traffic was still allowed in the area given the dispersal of AA units (with their own individual radars not linked to anything larger), the known threat and heightened tension.

Poor co-ordination between military and civilian ATC is quite believable.

If the Iranian government expected no escalation from the USA, then they might not shut down their own airspace. Which as far as I can tell, was a valid assumption - I don't see any reports the US had air assets anywhere NEAR Tehran in the hours after the Iranian missile salvo. Maybe they saw no response was coming after some hours and made a decision not to close it, maybe they never intended to close it... I agree it would have been *entirely* prudent to pause flight activity.

# ¿ Jan 10, 2020 14:08

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

AlexanderCA posted:

So yeah, anything that isn't socialism is fascism. Got it. In fact from the dawn of time until the October revolution, only fascism.

"We are all fascists now." - V.I. Lenin

# ¿ Jan 21, 2020 23:40

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

Ive said this once ill say it again Volkerball lives in idlb province.

You say a lot of things, many of which are wrong and/or crazy (remember your "Russia has seized Mariupol!!!!" panic?). Any particular reason we should believe you this time?

# ¿ Feb 9, 2020 10:25

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

The US isn't some bumbling set of fuckwits

TFW you tank so hard you start praising Trump as some kind of geopolitical genius.

# ¿ Feb 15, 2020 12:27

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

I'm sure you're all smarter than the combined minds of the US state department. Everything can be explained by how stupid everyone else is.

This is indeed a cogent summary of the worldview of Donald J. Trump, your geopolitical idol.

Ed: ^^^ *totally* not tormented.

# ¿ Feb 15, 2020 16:32

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

BurningChrome posted:

No, the ideal situation is for as many Turkish soldiers to die as is needed so they gently caress off out of Syria and leave the Kurds the gently caress alone. Or anyone else they have the genocidal itch for. And I don't really care about the fact they are conscripts. That's a problem for their society, their nation. If it makes them feel better, they can cry out to Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala about the misfortune of their birth. gently caress the turks.

quoted for posterity

# ¿ Feb 22, 2020 11:41

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Randarkman posted:

Btw, Mubarak just croaked.

Eid Mubarak

# ¿ Feb 25, 2020 12:16

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 20:33

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

This is ficking madness. Turkey is literally frontier advancing greece by using refugees as cannon fodder

I'd be worried about this if it wasn't you.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2020 19:41

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread: Clarissa Explains the Fall

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