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Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


MichiganCubbie posted:

I do believe that a lot of our feelings is that we're seeing people that many of us grew up watching, and haven't seen for 18 years, acting like a long lost family. That said, I completely agree with you, and I wish we got more of it, with everyone.

Possible spoilers for the countdown comic: I'm concerned about Geordi, though. Apparently he was the commanding officer of Utopia Planitia and personally led the charge for building/repurposing ships for the rescue armada, helping Picard, and was on the ground close to the time of the attack, according to those comics. I haven't read them, just getting recaps on youtube, but I'm assuming there's a strong possibility that he was killed in the attack, which could have led even more to Picard's 180 in attitude. Losing officers was always shown to hit hard, even though it's the nature of life on a starship, but Geordi is family.


I could be completely wrong though.


He's mentioned in the second episode of the show as alive though?

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Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


I haven't seen nearly as much Star Trek as a lot of you (only DS9, Discovery, and Picard), but I liked Lower Decks a lot! It's so much better than I thought it'd be.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:

I'm curious how long Sonequa Martin-Green is under contract for. They're perfectly setting up an opportunity to kick Michael off the shiplet Michael follow her heart as an independent courier/occasional guest star and have a cheap ensemble cast continue having future adventures.

Isn't she currently filming season four?

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


xerxus posted:

https://twitter.com/BurnettRM/status/1026656298580865024?s=20

Yeah. Burnett was asked about this today elsewhere and still maintained that 'New Trek' is not canon.

He's just in too deep with hating it, so even if the info is good, his interpretation will be deeply biased.

Maybe it's because I kind of came to Star Trek late, but I really don't get the hate for Discovery. It's not significantly more ridiculous than the "good" Star Trek I watched, like when I watched DS9 last year. This feels mostly like:

nine-gear crow posted:

It's like QAnon, but for television...

and less actual criticism.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Senor Tron posted:

Even that doesn't make sense given the number of Federation member worlds. Based on the number of members there's probably only 1-2 species joining the Federation each year, any of them would be a massive event.

I don't think the Federation particularly cared about Bajor prior to the wormhole, and probably didn't expend the effort.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


The setting of the Borg Cube turned Romulan salvage and research project was so cool, and it's weird they wasted it.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


I love how there's a subset of Trekkies who do nothing but prophesize the imminent and deserved doom of the franchise.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Lizard Combatant posted:

I haven't seen season 3, but was that moment better or worse than the imagination wand from the Picard finale?

Better because it was funny.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Timby posted:

John Noble has been cast as the villain in Prodigy.

He should really be in all sci-fi franchises

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


I like the cartoon spaceship show. I also like the live action ones, even the one where that one woman is crying in every scene.

I only watched a few Enterprise episodes prior to the new shows, and Discovery made me go back and watch all of DS9, and I'm watching Voyager now too. In general, this franchise is pretty good!

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


It's kind of funny how fragile the Federation is that virtually all alternate timelines and universes result in it being fascist and really liking black clothes.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


I like Discovery, but it's really weird how it's impossible to describe. All the other shows can be summed up in a line or two. The only way to describe it is this ship somehow saves the universe about every three months.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


The Grumbles posted:

Another way that series felt like it came so close to really understanding itself and then missed was that moment in season 2 where the universal translator malfunctions. At first I thought it was doing something genuniely cool, which was having all the characters revert to their given untranslated languages, and it was really exciting to think that this crew would normally be speaking Arabic, Klingon, Italian, Welsh, German etc etc etc - but no. Instead all that was happening was that the UT was translating their speech into an assortment of random languages, implying that everyone in the crew just speaks english and are mostly American. So close!
I somehow remember this scene as it not translating at all and people using their native languages. It was just translating into random other languages?

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


tarlibone posted:

Anyone have a link to this Disco clip with Archer?

Searching on the Google Tubes gives shows me a current trailer, a bunch of ST:ENT videos, and Disco stuff from 4 years ago.

https://twitter.com/Treksphere/status/1461060629859549188?t=XVLC4Pw4o_5MYeay2ZbcnQ&s=19

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Facebook Aunt posted:

The robots are built to age and die.

Wasn't this just a request Picard made and not a necessity?

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Big Mean Jerk posted:

Episode was good, the new Ten Forward set looks comfy as hell, and goons are still being weird and lovely about Gray’s actor.

Have they always had that bar? It's so weird they introduced that set four seasons in.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


The Starfleet response to a training exercise leaving someone dead is giving the instructor a permanent position training new cadets.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Meeting Ferengi mom in the middle of space doesn't bother me because tons of TV writing uses coincidences like that to keep a story moving.

What does strike me as weird about Prodigy is that all of the show looks great except the human (or human-ish) characters. The animation style seems better suited toward the more alien designs, while Spock and Janeway look kind of like game renders.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


This interview with one of the Prodigy showrunners, Aaron Waltke, is probably one of the most detailed I've seen for any TV show writer. He either knows a ton about Star Trek, or he has an excellent command of Memory Alpha.

I'm not as down on Picard or Discovery as a lot of people in the thread, but it's pretty clear he put more thought into this show than them.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Taear posted:

It'll get at least seven series and every single one will be utterly different from the other
Beyond the characters, it doesn't even feel related to series 1 now
I think more than anything, that's what sticks out to me the most about Discovery. All of the other shows have a through line and can probably be described in a single sentence. I don't know what Discovery's is.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Khanstant posted:

I'm still always a little caught off guard when he keeps being the dadmiral when for so many eps that first season I was waiting for him to basically be a less-mild version of President, who herself could stand to be a little more oppositional. Half the time Burnham scoffs at whatever the admiral or president are having her do before they finish their sentence and it's basically what Burnham wanted all along anyway or would be totally cool with.

Mariner gets away with a lot but even she faces consequences and setbacks along the way or after. Burnham's whole career since she mutiny'd has been like a discovery-camera-carousel of burnham spinning between brazenly disobeying orders, dramatically agreeing to tearfully follow orders only after making it clear she's doing it because she wants not because you told her to, and getting punished with a promotion or circumstance that allows her to do whatever she wants all along.

The cartoon character kind of seems more self-aware than Michael too. Discovery is a weird show, and I think Michael should've been promoted to captain in a series finale, with the show working its way to proving she deserved it. Saru is a more interesting captain.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011



Sisko really did have the only correct response to Q.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Why was Raffi seemingly unaware of who Q is when Elnor knew of him, and Mariner knew him in LD?

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Khanstant posted:

speak of the devil where the hell is worf? nobody seemed more eager to be in new trek than michael dorne, like, dude was ready to hop onto ~blasphemous fan projects~. at this point i have to assume he isn't showing up in new treks because he was trying to jump the gun and pissed somebody off

edit

weak, but that's something. if he doesn't show up LDS eventually though, something is up.
I don't remember the exact details, but the scene where they turn down drafting Geordi or Worf for the crew in season 1 felt like a really contrived video game RPG thing, forcing the protagonist into the desired narrrative.

And yeah, Dorne's absence is weird. I liked his pitch for a spinoff a while back.

Eimi posted:

I have to assume they either don't want to eat the crow over the horrible Disco Klingons and have Worf show up looking like he should, or they don't want to deal with the pitchforks in they try and act like Klingons have always been orcs.

I know a lot of people don't like Disco's additions to the canon, but none actually bother me much except the Klingon makeup which should probably be ignored.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Khanstant posted:

oh that. i mean, okay, i just well assumed that DISCO klingons looked like DISCO klingons during that pre-TOS period. Then they looked like they did in TOS. Then they looked how they look in TNG. They could look the same now, or be radically different physically, and at this point I don't think anyone ever has any right to complain or remark on the fact that the Klingon species Changes Sometimes, and No, They Don't Talk About It and Neither Should You. Less they say the better, at max lampshade it once casually and carry on.

am i being an outlier about that? feels pretty average perspective to me. but this could be one of the sticking points for the Trek Hate Industry I don't engage with. hope not, give us back klingons lol its getting weird

That'd be fine I guess, but it's still jarring in a way that their revised take on the Ferengi isn't.

Also, Lower Decks has shown Klingons post-Disco, and they look like they did in the 1990s, which I assume is what'll happen if they show up in a live action show.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Eimi posted:

ENT already explained TOS Klingons, and before the augment virus made them more human, they looked exactly like TNG era Klingons did. It's a massive continuity change for the worse.

Honestly I think almost all of their makeup decisions are loving horrible, at least concerning classic races. I hate what they did to Andorian after ENT perfected them and their Orions look like they are made of plastic. I guess their tellarite change is...okay?
The Orions are weird. I don't really notice the Andorian change though. The oddest Tellarite change in new Trek is Prodigy's, which is funny because that's probably the most canonically consistent show.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


CPColin posted:

I liked the part where they at first could beam halfway around the planet, but couldn't talk, then later they could talk halfway around the planet, but couldn't beam, then later they could do both. And also they had power for a cloaking device.

This didn't annoy me as much as a starship not having a heating system.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Fidel Cuckstro posted:

Watching DISCO S3 before S2, I totally assumed that face-apparatus security lady had some prominent minor role in S2, that she got like 2-3 different scenes in S3 to be moopey about letting down the android lady officer. But she has like...5 lines the entire season? Less present than Tig Notaro, who's just popping in for guest spots?
Nhan and Jett Reno are completely wasted season after season. I understand they are working with Tig's schedule, but I don't get how they handled Nhan.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Fidel Cuckstro posted:

I wish there was more Jett Reno because who doesn't want more Tig, but also I sort of like that they decided that Tig Notaro's big cameo character is just this like borderline anonymous engineer whose big thing is to show up and annoy Stamets.

But Nhan, Owo, Detmer...the writers seem like they've come with reasonably interesting characters and then never really give them screen time but wink at us like "oh...don't you wish you'd see a whole scene with them??". Like in S4, there's an episode where they have to evacuate a colony. Easily a story that could have not involved Burnham at all- it really did nothing for her or the plot. But instead they have the character who has a whole "making sure everyone survives a natural disaster is a big deal to me, I saw one destroy my village as a kid" is shunted offscreen. Just so weird.

Also the initial reason for writing off Nhan didn't make much sense. She's piloting a dead seed vault, except a year later she isn't?

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


DaveKap posted:

This makes me wonder if they just threw a pile of money at the makeup team and said "make cool poo poo" without any other direction.
The Osnullus are a good example of this. The make up on them is distractingly good, but they have no lines, their name is never mentioned on screen, and we know nothing about this species. The only memorable acting moment out of the Osnullus bridge officer is when Anson Mount said she was going to be captain in the outtake.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Charity Porno posted:

I've had a theory for a long time that the Mirror Universe has some form of intelligence behind it because just from a logical standpoint it makes no sense that the same people are alive in both universes in almost every circumstance. Attrition and chaos alone should prevent that. Yet every time our heroes enter, it's mirrored just like their ship/station despite divergences hundreds of years back making that unlikely.

The DS9 mirror episodes were pretty bad, but the episode where Nog continually points out how stupid the premise is was good

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


apatheticman posted:

I cant believe we are just 2 years away from drone force field technology
I don't get what this was about at all. Why do they have crazy Star Trek tech two years from now? Why wasn't that scene under a tarp or something instead?

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Eimi posted:

I mean the forcefield thing bothers me since Reed was the guy who created the first human forcefield in ENT.

Yeah, ignoring that it doesn't make sense in real life, it also seems to contradict the rest of the series.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


FlamingLiberal posted:

I actually liked the episode overall after really not liking the last few, but there are still a lot of problems. There was no reason to drag out the Picard’s childhood trauma plotline past the coma episode. The effects in this episode were abysmal, to be kind, and everything with Holo-Elnor was weird. I’m also pretty sure that Jurati left a bunch of armed drones on past-Earth, because they absolutely didn’t kill them all in this episode. The revelation that Seven got rejected by Starfleet is some bullshit and makes no sense.

On paper I at least like the idea of Jurati making the Borg into a cooperative instead of a forced collective, but considering we have one more episode left this season I doubt we will get to really explore much of what that even means. I have no idea what they are going to do with Q at this point. He almost completely disappeared from this show after episode 2.

I liked this week a lot more than the last few too. I think the pacing of the latter half of the season is somewhat inexplicably and bizarre, but at least this episode wasn't boring.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Tiberius Christ posted:

I had very a slim hope that the borg collective chakotay met on voyager was the new collective making contact with the federation, but i'm really setting a low bar for some of this stuff to clear

does any of thses appeal to non fans? I'm curious if anyone has watched any of the nutrek without having seen the old stuff and likes it

I watched Discovery season 1 first, then DS9, then the rest of the new shows as they aired and sporadic Voyager (which is harder to get through than DS9). I'll watch the rest eventually, but it's going to take me a while. I'm familiar enough with TNG, TOS, and Enterprise from seeing random episodes too. I like the new shows, though a few of the episodes of Picard season 2 and Discovery season 4 were kind of boring.

I honestly don't really think there's a huge quality difference between some of the low points of DS9 and Voyager, and what I'm seeing now. Not much has reached the high points of DS9 though, and ironically, the only show that seems as coherently written is probably Prodigy. Discovery doesn't have a main idea, and ignores or writes out interesting characters. Picard has a lot of main ideas, but can't focus enough to deliver on any.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011



I do like, if nothing else, how committed Picard season 2 is to show that American immigration and economic policies are fascist. I wish the season was more focused on that, or more focused on just about anything.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


nine-gear crow posted:

Lower Decks and Prodigy have figured out how to be good Post-Nemesis Trek. You simply need to be an animated TV show it seems.

These two shows actually seem to want to do something with their setting, while sticking to core strengths of the series. There's been a lot of posts, but someone yesterday posted that the newer series don't have a clear reason for existing, and I think that's true to an extent. But the biggest difference between Prodigy and LD and Discovery/Picard is the cartoons can basically be summed up in one or two line summaries. They have easy to understand loglines.

In contrast, Discovery and Picard just kind of exist. Sometimes they make good episodes, sometimes they make bad episodes, but I can't really say after six combined seasons what the plot is of either.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Charity Porno posted:

It's sort of criminal how good the Picard theme is for how bad a show it is

The tone of the theme song fits a few scenes per season, but is otherwise wildly out of sync with the show. It's a great piece of music though.

Bubbacub posted:

I'm amused that they barely acknowledge Picard being an android in S2.

They actually acknowledge it way more than I thought they would, but it has zero consequences and pretty much didn't need to happen.

Nichael fucked around with this message at 20:03 on May 7, 2022

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Penitent posted:

After Pike's big speech, during the montage, can someone explain what the deal was the paper enterprise cut outs in the candle lit room?

It was weirdly like a religious ceremony or something?

First contact with aliens became a cultural force around the planet that impacted everything from who kids idolized, to how religions are structured. Thus, the symbol of the Enterprise took on a deeper meaning on the planet.

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Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Craptacular! posted:

Congratulations to the Picard writers on removing everything that drew viewers into the Borg. It took a long time to make sure nobody wants to ever see them again but y’all did it.

Like after the initial shock value of the Borg (robot men! Hilariously no -aerodynamic flying squares!) what made them interesting was how they desire even more harmony than the Federation but get it through some horribly nightmarish methods. They’re both an allegory and a body horror story all in one. But now being assimilated is… a gift? And Jurarti is going to find species who want to volunteer for the collective? Do they still lose individual agency beyond their identity or what?

This is probably the last appearance of the Borg in the timeline, as any future appearances will probably be before this point, so what a way to go out.

I don't think it removed anything about prior Borg stories because Jurati is clearly making a Borg hivemind separate from the antagonistic one, like a different nation. The bigger problem is that this is an interesting idea that is barely explored, and will be jettisoned because season three will have nothing to do with it.

Charity Porno posted:

If they ever go beyond this point in the future I'd bet good money they'll ignore this entire thing and still have the Borg be soulless destroyers
Also, did I imagine a Borg reference in season 4 of Discovery where they're still enemies?

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