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ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001
From a few days ago:

Linguica posted:

I don't know where this idea comes from that many DOS gamers didn't use mice by the time Doom came out.
Because there wasn't enough memory to load the mouse driver and play Doom on 4 MB RAM machines, and when Doom came out nobody had 8 MB yet.

Seriously, folks spent hours loving with CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT to get Doom to work at all. Nobody cared about a mouse.

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ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

WeedlordGoku69 posted:

but NoA has actively sought out chuds and fundies as a customer base since the early goddamn 90s,
If you're referring to the censorship of religion and religious symbols, it was more to avoid any controversy that might've been drummed up by the religious. Nintendo's secular appearance wasn't intended to appeal to the fundamentalists though, and largely I don't think it did.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001
Over the years I've tried to understand what circumstances resulted in GBA DOOM having half-way decent music using the GBC sound channels, but they, somehow, got the music/level mapping off by one.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

comingafteryouall posted:

Civvy mentioned in the most recent Doom movie review that at one point, id had wanted Doom to be an Aliens (movie franchise) game. Here's my question: if it was basically the same game design but palette swapped with Aliens, do you all think it would have endured in the same way?
For one, "the same game design" is a big if, here. Second, having total control over your creative IP almost always works out better than being a licensee and having to deal with a licensor who probably doesn't share the same vision for the project.

But, sure, if DOOM had been released as literally the Aliens TC it probably would have the same long-term legacy regarding how it spawned the modding community. It's really hard to image that, that would've been the result though as opposed to something like the Jaguar's Alien vs Predator.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

Hasturtium posted:

Oh Lordy, this with the Final Doomer BtSX weapons will keep me happy for a while, thank you.
I like how the first level took me 20 minutes with putting god mode on halfway through and spamming the light amplification visor because the Switch's screen is just a little too dark. Par time of :30? Right.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

spongeh posted:

Just popping in to say that we've uploaded a new mod to the modern Doom 1 and Doom 2 ports, REKKR is now available for PC/console/mobile, which if you've never played before is a really fantastic TC.
Good stuff!

Out of curiosity though, is there any particular reason for add-ons being restricted to one of DOOM or DOOM II or available to both? At first it seemed like availability in both wasn't going to be the norm but the past few add-ons have been.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

spongeh posted:

Normally I try to turn the mods into an IWAD so they run on either game, but until this update, unknown IWADs would be run as Doom 2 (now it looks for E1M1 or MAP01 lumps to determine 1 or 2).
That's interesting. Again curious--if you can answer--do you use internal tools for WAD management or do you make use of community tools? It's fascinating to think that with DOOM's 20 year history of community-maintained source ports that the proprietary version has been maintained in parallel for much of the same period of time. Wondering if that's also the case with development tools.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001
He's just oblivious. Sure, if all wealthy people just spent their fortune on building rockets then, whatever. I mean, it still sucks that an appreciable portion of society is struggling to reach a baseline level of health and well being, but he's not really harming anyone.

The problem is that many wealth people spent their fortunes either directly or indirectly lobbying to screw over the rest of society and cause even greater disparity. If you remove their wealth and power, everyone else is better off. Hell, if faced with hardship they might even lobby for basic social support too.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

CJacobs posted:

Interesting that he's super self-aware of his lack of care for his fellow man, but also chooses to maintain a twitter account.
For as long as I can remember Carmack had a publicly accessible .plan file for which his Twitter is a modern equivalent.

Anyways, he's just sharing his opinions, some of which aren't great and many of those for which he's called out. It would be better if he was more empathetic and more educated on social issues, sure, but there's some value in the discourse itself. Seeing someone you respect as a "smart guy" get smacked for not-well-thought-out opinions is its own experience.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

laserghost posted:

Buy Quake 1 on GOG, it comes with an original .iso image
.iso doesn't help since the soundtrack is redbook audio. But according to one of the GOG comments it comes with three .bin/.cues (original game and the two mission packs). That's really cool.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001
.iso files don't contain redbook audio. They're the contents of the first (data) track of the CD, while the audio is on subsequent tracks. This is why you can play the Quake soundtrack on an audio CD player.

.bin/.cue files contain all tracks of a CD, including the file system and subsequent audio tracks. As far as I know you can't mount these natively in Windows but there might be third party tools to do it. In the old days, the audio was played natively by the CD-ROM drive and mixed with your computer's audio at the sound card. I have absolutely no idea how that works in the modern era, but my guess is that there's tools to convert the redbook audio tracks to .wav files and then you can probably import those into a modern Quake source port or something.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

Hasturtium posted:

That hasn't been an option for many years - SATA onward rendered it obsolete, and even before that starting around Windows 2000 the drive would just read the audio, pull it down over the bus, and feed it to the application through some trickery I never bothered reading about.
So my most recent computer (which I do use daily) that has any CD compatibility has a PATA DVD±RW drive in it. I think it still has an analog audio connector but I don't have that connected. I'm not sure what it says that I still use this thing.

Edit: As far as I know it still works too. Although the floppy drive thinks it permanently has a disk inserted even when it doesn't.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

Flannelette posted:

I was still using the arrow keys for half-life in 2000 :downs:
I feel like I played every shooter with arrow keys and no mouse (or some mouse) for the whole 90s because I was a dumb kid and using letters to move is crazy, they're letters! You move with arrows!
It wasn't because you were a dumb kid, it was because those were the default key bindings.

Most DOOM players played keyboard-only for its contemporaneous run. I tried the mouse with Quake a few times but it didn't click until I was told about WASD. I wasn't aware until today that it was a built-in optional configuration for Quake II. WASD was a default binding for Half-Life.

I haven't "seriously" played a PC FPS since Quake III but I've always used invert look with a mouse. Sure it started with flight sims but it was reinforced by early console FPSes too. Goldeneye uses invert-Y even with the on-screen reticle to the point that pressing up makes the reticle go down.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

Rocket Pan posted:

Extra fresh because I only just now got the emailconfirming the final regions:
https://twitter.com/Rocket_Pan_/status/1318359969931030529
If I buy this enough times will you guys figure out how to make System Shock happen on the Switch too?

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001
Appreciate the effort to sort out the eShop discount, but it's only $2.50 we're talking about here. I didn't think twice about picking up this new release of a very old game.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001
Oh that's fantastic. That's exactly the kind of collection I was hoping from LRG. The cynic in me expected them to have separate (Switch) carts for DOOM and DOOM II, and somehow split DOOM 3 across two carts for $150 or something.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

Wamdoodle posted:

Most publishers try to get away with using only 1 Switch cart because, like the N64, they are expensive which why it seem that the Switch has more digital distribution games. Also, some games are part on the cart and part download to get around multiple carts ie Wolfenstein: The New Colossus. Wolfenstein: Youngblood is just a case with a download code.
Wolfenstein: TNC was what it was as it was a relatively early Switch release and I think predated the availability of 32 GB carts, which are still very expensive. So that's, understandable. It's stuff like Mortal Kombat 11 that ships on an 8 GB cart and requires a 20 GB download that makes me mental.

My totally unsubstantiated claim is that Switch cartridges cost roughly $1/GB to manufacture and are available in power-of-two sizes. So an 8 GB game is under $10 to manufacture, 16 GB is ~$15, and 32 GB is $30-35 or something like that. Most third-party Switch publishers will do a single giant print run of cartridges for their games, and then sell them over time with increasing discounts to rid of excess stock. But in doing so they still need to recoup manufacturing costs, which drives the desire to limit games to 16 GB, or even 8 GB if they can get away with it, and ensure they never sell for less than $20.

Anyways, regarding LRG they're different from a traditional publisher in that they prefer to release one game one cart, even when there's obvious opportunity for bundling of sequels like with Blaster Master Zero or No More Heroes. Of course LRG fans are going to pick up both titles so they do more sales that way. So, as I said, I'm kind of surprised they did a DOOM collection instead of three separate carts. But that makes it a really nice value.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

treat posted:

I decided to give the unity port a try after your post since I have game pass, and I reflexively alt+F4'd and uninstalled the second I saw a bethesda account was required to load addon wads, so I understand how that could happen.
Only on consoles. On PC and Android it's possible to load your own PWADs without having to sign in I think.

I mean, I hate required signons for console games, especially single player ones. But it didn't seem unreasonable for access to the official add-ons.

Speaking of which the last was REKKR in September right? I guess they're done with them.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

Squeezy Farm posted:

Wait... is GOG chuddy? I know there was some kerfuffle about Cyberpunk but I've still been using it for old games :(
Aside from the crap Tweets, CDPR has been under fire recently for saying they don't have crunch and it turned out that they were crunching hard to release Cyberpunk (of course they were).

GOG itself probably doesn't have much in the way of crunch.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001
For whatever reason this weekend I went down the rabbit hole of checking out all the different (DOS) versions of Wolfenstein 3D and Spear of Destiny that exist out in the wild, since apparently every publisher id Software worked with published their own builds. One thing I noticed is that the infamously smarmy manual copy protection in Spear of Destiny is often bypassed in various ways in subsequent CD releases. The 1998 Activision release in particular appears to be a rebuilt-from-source version with the protection removed outright. A couple of things came up though, and I'm curious if anyone knows:

1. Spear of Destiny in the id Anthology is the "original" v1.4 version with copy protection intact. But as far as I know the printed manual isn't included in the anthology? Or was it? Or did everyone know the various backdoors by this point?

2. Multiple SoD CD releases use a disc-based copy protection method where the ISO filesystem is split across two data tracks. See this Redump entry. Does anyone know what name(s) this protection went under?

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

The Kins posted:

The CD included a digital manual for all the games (using a 16-bit version of Oracle Media Objects 😬) that lists all the answers.
Wasn't looking for that. :aaa:

Well, that settles that, thanks!

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

juggalo baby coffin posted:

it was great that void bastards was released as a game with a solid foundation but no depth, then sold pretty well, then was completely abandoned by the developers.
Does it need to be patched though?

Not every game is a Dead Cells that gets updated for years and I'm OK with that.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001
Do you all consider Quake good? Not the multiplayer mods, just the straight-up single-player campaign?

I've never really been able to get into Quake.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

SeANMcBAY posted:

I wish Quake would get modern ports like Doom does. I want Quake on Switch.
Gotta wait for the Year of Quake.

Also I'd love to see the Quake software renderer implemented in Unity.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001
Apparently the registered (mail order) version of DOOM 1.9 on CD is very rare, as it was obsolesced by the retail release of Ultimate DOOM in mid 1995.

Thing is, I have this CD and now I'm curious what it sells for, but I can't figure it out. I ordered it in early 1995 after getting a PC-capable-of-playing-DOOM for Christmas '94. I recall it took weeks to come in the mail, and when it did I was miffed as I saw the Ultimate DOOM at an Egghead Software like a month later. Although I was on the Internet by this time and id kindly made a patch available in the idgames repo. I've always kept this CD in a jewel case along with the sleeve. I think I still have the mail-order box although it may be carefully disassembled as I did with all my other PC big boxes when moving.

Anyways, I'm not particularly interested in selling anything, I just figured it might be the most valuable gaming-related thing I own unless somehow the registered Heretic (pre-Deathkings of the Dark Citadel) is somehow more.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

david_a posted:

Has there even been a crowd funded attempt to straight-up buy source code for an old game?
I can't think of a game, but the source code for Blender was famously purchased for €100,000 to make open source.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

Mordja posted:

We're at this annoying point where the first wave of good, retro-shooters came out a few years ago (DUSK, Ion Fury, Amid Evil), the second wave is just in Early Access or the "near" future (WRATH, Viscerafest, AE and IF expansions) and the third wave (Core Decay, Selaco, CULTIC) is nothing more than a bunch of digital teasers. Gimme dem games!
Which of these weren't created by homo/transphobic nazis? I know Ion Fury was, but not sure about which others I should avoid.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001
I wish Activision would get together with Bethesda and release Classic Unity ports of Heretic and Hexen.

Even though I've played with DOOM source ports on and off for the past twenty years, I got back into DOOM playing it on my Switch, on my couch, in a way that I haven't since the mid 90s. And we already have a Strife ported.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001
If I hook that up to my TV does it actually work?

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

Zedsdeadbaby posted:

Doom 2 was rushed out the door and its maps couldn't take advantage of the extra monsters quite fully.
Was DOOM II really more of a crunch than DOOM? Given the state of DOOM during the October press release beta it's amazing what they got done by December.

I mean, sure, they had to create 29ish all new maps but at least they had a fully working game engine for the duration of its development.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

site posted:

iirc in masters of doom it says he ended up playing deathmatch a poo poo ton instead of working lol
Play testing and map tuning is actually important though. I mean, Romero easily could be the type to screw off all day but I suspect there was some legitimacy to what he was doing.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

Serephina posted:

e3m9 blew my mind when I first played it, I had assumed the emulator had glitched.
Emulator?

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001
LRG is messing with me.

First they announced the DOOM Classics Collection, which I had to get despite having all three on Switch already. I think it's their first combo cart. Then I had to buy DOOM 64 at Best Buy despite already having DOOM 64 on the Switch, because I can't be missing one of the DOOM carts now that I have the others.

Now they've announced Strife. But I already have Strife. Maybe it will come with the original manual or something and I can justify it that way.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001
Oh, yeah, I guess. I've tried DOOM in DOSBox but I couldn't actually play it like that. Fortunately Chocolate Crispy DOOM exists.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

TheScott2K posted:

No soundtrack, which was Redbook audio streamed from the disc. "No soundtrack" hasn't seemed to stop them in the past or present.
They should do what they did with DOOM and "re-record" the Quake soundtrack playing on a 90s Denon CD player or something.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001
You're so patient with people who make insane requests of your games. It's charming.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

Tippis posted:

There's this persistent myth that playing Doom with a mouse was a late(r) addition, but it's wholly and entirely borne out of people conflating their memory of not having a mouse in those early days, and confusing that with the game not supporting it.
PCs capable of playing DOOM, or even Wolfenstein 3D, mostly shipped with Windows 3.x for which a mouse was effectively standard if not incredibly common. So they probably did have a mouse, but what may have happened is that they didn't have a DOS mouse driver loaded when playing those games and so the mouse never worked. That was especially likely with DOOM since it required most of 4 MB to run, and on a 4 MB machine people often relied on a DOS boot disk or DOS 6 boot menu with minimal drivers, since OEM DOS configuration often had enough drivers loaded that DOOM wouldn't run.

I also discovered recently that early versions of the DOOM setup program (v1.0 or v1.0) defaulted to keyboard only controls, while later versions defaults to keyboard + mouse. And yes, while DOOM was playable with a keyboard and mouse, Wolfenstein 3D was less so since it used a "strafe key" as a modifier on the arrow (turn) keys, instead of dedicated left/right strafe keys.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001
Tom did Mt. Erebus? We're just finding this out now?

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001
I just came to say I'm finally excited to play the Orange Box on a handheld sometime next year but I'm going to nope my way out of this discussion

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ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001
Alright how many copies of DOOM do you all have?

I just bought the DOOM Franchise Bundle on Steam with the QuakeCon sale to get DOOM Eternal for when the Deck comes out. That makes the third time I've purchased DOOM/II/64/3 in the past two years. Plus I have my original DOS copies and the GBA cart.

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