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Hong XiuQuan posted:It also looks like the IDF has been executing some of the people they catch on sight Can you explain in more detail what's going on in that video? What is the IDF soldier saying? Do I understand correctly that the implication is that the four men with guns tried to surrender, but Israeli soldiers killed them? The tweet says they exchanged fire, but it's hard to make out anything.
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Oct 10, 2023 23:18
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Marenghi posted:I thought it was also a war crime to show off dead soldiers on film as you brag about killing them. Not entirely sure that videos of dead combatants on their own constitute a war crime (unlike videos of interrogations of PoWs), but I may be mistaken. It is a war crime to mistreat the dead, though, and depending on what the soldier is saying, and what the video shows that I might be missing, it can be an evidence of a war crime. The original statement, however, was that an execution took place. E: \/\/\/ That's awful. I hope protests and counter-protests don't devolve into violence. Paladinus fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Oct 10, 2023 |
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Oct 10, 2023 23:40
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Can anyone who speaks Arabic summarise this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcz5Kqpc_rw This is Khaled Meshaal, former Hamas chief and current leader of their diaspora office. I see a lot of conflicting reporting ranging from 'he calls for Jewish pogroms around the world' to 'he asks diaspora and fellow Muslims to participate in protests in support of Palestine'. From what I managed to piece together from selective translations, he also calls for volunteers to go to Israel and join the fight, but I am not entirely convinced the translations I see are correct. Reuters only mentions protests in their reporting. https://www.reuters.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-protests-idAFS8N3AQ05J
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Oct 11, 2023 15:32
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the two-state solution imply mutual recognition of state borders? Otherwise the proposed solution is just to freeze the conflict.
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Oct 11, 2023 21:08
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Main Paineframe posted:There's been a fair few cases where two hostile groups were partitioned into a "two-state solution", reached a mutual peace or ceasefire, and just stayed that way even without a final solution working out their issues and disagreements once and for all. Even though neither side really officially acknowledged the other's borders or right to exist, they weren't willing to go back to war about it again. Those kinds of states generally don't have very good relations with each other, sure, but they've largely avoided full-scale war - even when the military balance between the two states vastly shifts. Once some kind of peaceful balance has been established and maintained for a while, it's pretty hard for them to go back to all those years of bloody war (especially if the international community is exerting pressure to keep it that way). I was also thinking about the example of Koreas, but I guess it's a question of perspective and semantics. Both countries sort of just pretend they are the only Korea, and there was never any 'second state' in principle. The same goes for China and Taiwan to some extent, as far as I understand. With Israel and Palestine there are two (if not three) de facto states with no common political ancestry, so to speak, so I'm not sure it could work quite the same way. In any case, whatever term is used for what Hamas have in their goals, I agree that it's something that should have at least been attempted, even if it's not perfect.
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Oct 11, 2023 22:34
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Marenghi posted:What is going on with some of these hands, feet and faces? Looks like they tried to upscale the photo with AI and failed spectacularly.
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Oct 12, 2023 12:34
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Rigged Death Trap posted:https://twitter.com/AJABreaking/status/1712458565271912762 Utterly depressing.
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Oct 12, 2023 14:43
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Blinken at least paid some lip service to the idea that Israel should avoid unnecessary civilian casualties, but only between assurances of complete and unconditional support and assistance. https://www.reuters.com/world/us-secretary-state-blinken-lands-israel-2023-10-12/ quote:"We democracies distinguish ourselves from terrorists by striving for a different standard, even when it's difficult," he said. "That's why it's so important to take every possible precaution to avoid harming civilians."
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Oct 12, 2023 15:26
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My expert analysis of the pixels is that it's fake. And I mean very obviously fake, someone sloppily drew the flag on their phone. Why the hell would you post that nonsense here?
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Oct 13, 2023 15:02
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Walked posted:Reuters reporting crew was hit by a mortar or artillery live shortly ago on the Lebanon border. No visuals but a lot of audio indicating it seemed like a direct and bad hit. Can't find it on the website. Can you link the news story? E: Dehry posted:It's on their youtube page. The stream was up for like half an hour I see, thank you. Paladinus fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Oct 13, 2023 |
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Oct 13, 2023 16:18
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I have a question about the Arabic used in the alleged plans. Wouldn't Palestinian Arabic dialects be fairly different from what google offers in translations? Was there at least an attempt at Palestinian Arabic or does it really look like machine translation into Standard Arabic?
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Oct 15, 2023 00:28
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Setting the issues with the language aside, the documents were allegedly dated October 2022, so the raid didn't have to be on a Saturday. But it begs the question as to why they didn't adjust the plans when they already knew the date.
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Oct 15, 2023 01:19
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While we're on the topic of trust in official sources and news outlets. It's pretty clear that IDF are not above spreading some unverified rumours if not outright forgeries to help the cause, which Western media may not review as rigorously as one would expect, and a lot of propaganda is coming from other Israeli government bodies and media. At the same time, I see a lot of reports in Western media citing official statements by the Palestinian Ministry of Health as the primary source. Are their statements usually trustworthy or is there also a possibility that they can be used by Hamas for psyop purposes? I know I ask a lot of probably dumb questions in the thread, but without knowing the languages, I realised, my understanding of the media landscape was really limited, and a lot of time I can't get a good grasp on how to identify the less obvious untruths.
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Oct 15, 2023 01:40
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mannerup posted:someone please correct me if I’m misinformed, but I believe there are two parallel agencies within Gaza that use that label; one is operated by the Palestinian National Authority and the other by Hamas (Health Ministry of the Gaza Strip). I expect for non-Arabic speakers there is going to be a lot of conflation from English statements not making the subtle difference, especially on social media. Okay, that explains some things, thanks. Digging a bit deeper, at least judging by some names mentioned in news articles, Western media tend to cite the PNA one. I understand that PNA are not on very good terms with Hamas, but they are obviously not huge fans of Israeli occupation either. Can their official statements on what's going on in Gaza be generally trusted? Do they even have enough people on the ground there to monitor the situation effectively?
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Oct 15, 2023 02:10
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KillHour posted:It's not down, it just refuses to translate that specific thing. I literally can't find a website that will, either. What does it say? Are you people doing a bit or something? It literally means 'Language translation is not available at this time'. That's the joke.
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Oct 15, 2023 17:01
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Some moderately good news. Israel promises to renew water supply to parts of southern Gaza. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/renewed-water-supply-parts-south-gaza-agreed-with-biden-israeli-minister-2023-10-15/ Unfortunately, I believe this might be the bad news for northern Gaza, if the South becomes the dedicated safe zone for civilians.
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Oct 15, 2023 17:47
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break-up breakdown posted:In what way can this be interpreted other than “The Israelis want to do an ethnic cleansing"? Presumably, they are going to let them back in once they are done with HAMAS. But you would be right not to presume. Although Biden signals that complete annexation of Gaza by Israel is not what America would want to see, I don't think Israel has committed to anything beyond 'destroy HAMAS'.
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Oct 17, 2023 14:26
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break-up breakdown posted:Even say they did fully intend to allow them return at some later point (haha). Is it not still ethnic cleansing to purposefully depoplate an area? Or do they also have to say they intend to settle it themselves once it's empty Well, as long as Israel is perceived to conduct a just war with the stated purpose of defeating HAMAS, framing evacuation of civilians as ethnic cleansing is a tall order. Evacuating people due to a natural disaster, for example, is absolutely not ethnic cleansing on its own. Identifying how much actions align with stated intentions, and how much other countries may prefer not to see any discrepancies is a separate issue.
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Oct 17, 2023 16:16
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I realise that in the scheme of things it's not that important, but why would you post a tweet by some crypto bro citing Reuters instead of directly linking to the story? I can't find it on the website.
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Oct 18, 2023 00:22
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Discendo Vox posted:Do you have a mediating source for this other than someone working for mint press? See in the quote below. It has a different screenshot, so I would assume it was a real tweet. Now, maybe PM's media advisor doesn't get up-to-date dispatches from the military and just mindlessly shares whatever he sees on social media with pure glee and bloodlust. That's also theoretically possible. ummel posted:It might even be deleted now. E: Beaten with a better explanation.
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Oct 18, 2023 00:40
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I don't think Rakosi is making a good case for it not being IDF because he can't even properly present the evidence IDF provide. However, I have to agree that 'because it happened before' is not a convincing argument either. The strongest evidence from the two sides, as I see it, is the following: - It was a malfunctioning Palestinian rocket: video of rockets launched from somewhere close to the hospital moments before a huge explosion. Some people in the thread point out that the timestamp is wrong, but my understanding is there was a different video first that was deleted, and the one currently in circulation is time stamped correctly. It is also claimed that the video captured one of the rockets failing, but I can't confirm that myself and haven't seen any independent sources confirming that with certainty - It was an Israeli strike: a video of the impact where the sound and the strengths of the impact, some say, would be more consistent with the type of ammunition Israel uses I find the latter more compelling right now in the light of circumstantial evidence like the sheer number of casualties but I don't think it's conclusive yet. We haven't even seen any fragments of the rocket yet. It should also be possible, as more footage and photos surface, to identify the trajectory of the rocket.
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Oct 18, 2023 12:51
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A big flaming stink posted:I personally think the most compelling evidence Israel did it was that the guy in charge of Israel's online propaganda took credit for the attack immediately after it happened. As vile and inhumane that tweet was, it's circumstantial evidence at best. He's a social media guy, not a military guy. He saw reports of a hospital being hit and deployed the usual horrible excuse of 'if it was hit, it means terrorists were hiding there'. Physical evidence is much stronger than tweets, generally speaking.
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Oct 18, 2023 13:22
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I think this is an important event that should be as 0) on the timeline. https://twitter.com/FSBRG/status/1714609456279855380 E: Just so it's clear, it's also circumstantial evidence, but it should be kept in mind.
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Oct 18, 2023 15:17
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Zzulu posted:Is it really important who blew it up? PIJ, not HAMAS. But it's as important as whether the dead babies were beheaded or just shot. It's tragic that 100 attacks with 5 dead attract less media attention combined than 1 with 500 dead.
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Oct 18, 2023 16:42
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Any thoughts on the comically prominent Cyrillic watermark that the tweeter does not feel the need to mention? It's odd that he wouldn't cite his source if they were someone credible. I can confirm that it's a very low-quality tg channel that spreads a lot of unconfirmed rumours and outright fakes mixed with reposts from more reputable sources. I will try to locate that specific tg post to check where they got it from.
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Oct 18, 2023 21:25
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Found the original tg post: https://t.me/hamasps/16836 It looks like it is HAMAS' official tg channel, there are google results about it prior to Oct 7. I don't speak Arabic so don't know how accurate the translation is, but Google gives me this: quote:Al-Qassam Brigades bomb occupied Haifa with an R160 missile in response to the massacres against civilians Guardian also mention it here https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...rocket-to-blame quote:Updates at 7pm described “bombardment by rockets” on Ashdod. Another, three minutes later, described an attack on Tel Aviv.
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Oct 18, 2023 21:37
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Neurolimal posted:To my point, Israel's allegedly been committing probing attacks into Gaza to figure out just how badly things are going to go if they actually do a full-scale invasion: If there is anything I wouldn't trust Hamas on, it's statements like that. Neither would I trust IDF, should they say they actually eliminated 45 Hamas terrorist with no losses in that same probing attack.
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Oct 22, 2023 20:20
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Okay, I see that there was a statement by IDF regarding the raid. https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-10-22-23/h_bf4aae725b98b0afa0125cc267deabb4 quote:The raid was carried out earlier today in the area of Kibbutz Kissufim near the Gaza Strip, IDF spokesperson Daniel Hagari said during a video briefing. An anti-tank missile launched toward an IDF tank and an engineering vehicle left one soldier dead, one with moderate injuries, and two with mild injuries, according to Hagari. Considering IDF didn't mention inflicting any losses on the enemy, I suppose it's safe to assume they hadn't, but maybe CNN decided not to quote that part or something.
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Oct 22, 2023 20:50
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BUUNNI posted:Israel is apparently rejecting hostages taken by Hamas. It’s very weird. Again, not sure we can trust Hamas on this one, and Israel didn't really confirm it, it looks like. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-says-israel-declined-receive-two-hostages-it-intended-release-2023-10-21/ quote:JERUSALEM, Oct 21 (Reuters) - Israel on Saturday described as "propaganda" a claim by Hamas that the militant group had wanted to release two more hostages on humanitarian grounds but that Israel declined to receive them.
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Oct 22, 2023 21:08
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mannerup posted:Its not a question that Hamas publicly made the statement from their own Telegram account on releasing two specific hostages by name "for compelling humanitarian reasons and without compensation; However, the occupation government refused to receive them". Netanyahu's office called it 'propaganda', interfering that they believe the offer was either not actually made or made in bad faith. It's a classic non-denial denial statement from Netanyahu's office that they didn't accept or entertain the offer. They say they informed some 'Qatari officers'. Has this been confirmed by Qatar at least?
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Oct 22, 2023 21:28
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mannerup posted:as the mediating party between the two for the purpose of hostage negotiations, I doubt they are publicly going to weigh in because it has the potential to compromise their diplomatic efforts (and also shows Israel and Hamas that they will go to the media to release what are sensitive private discussions) Okay, so how are we supposed to know that when they said 'yesterday we offered to release two hostages, but Israel declined' it was true? If Israel posts on twitter that they promised ceasefire if Hamas released all hostages, but Hamas declined, and then Hamas said that they wouldn't engage with shameless Israeli propaganda and lies like that, would you just trust Israel over Hamas because it was on Israel's official twitter account?
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Oct 22, 2023 22:34
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Al-Qaeda should adopt a better brand font if they're going to put it on all their materials. Looks very cheap and unprofessional right now.
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Oct 23, 2023 00:33
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Apparently Biden pushed Netanyahu to ensure continuous flow of humanitarian aid to Gaza. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-biden-netanyahu-gaza-aid-white-house/ Right after that the right-wing Minister of National Security tweeted this: https://twitter.com/itamarbengvir/status/1716191291791302680?s=20 Translation by Times of Israel posted:Any agreement of ‘continuous aid to Gaza’ that doesn’t include freeing all our hostages is just a continuation of the concept that led us to where we are now. Humanitarian [aid] only in exchange for freeing all the hostages. How much sway does that ministry have on issues like that? Could Hamas potentially agree to exchange hostages for aid should that offer become the official line?
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Oct 23, 2023 02:09
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punishedkissinger posted:that is one of the fundamental questions for Palestinians right? Fatah has never been able to stop the settlements and Hamas did. How much was Sharon's decision to dismantle settlements in Gaza dictated by the threat Hamas posed before they won the election? Strengthening the blockade on Gaza was definitely presented as retaliation to Hamas' rise to power, but I'm not sure it wasn't just mostly internal Israeli politicing.
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Oct 24, 2023 19:19
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Darth Walrus posted:Good points made in this thread on the subject of Gazan casualty numbers: It raises good points about the overall numbers, but from what I see online, a lot of scepticism is implicitly more about who died and how they died. I saw people claim that when Gazan MoH says, for example, that three thousand Gazans died, what they don't tell you is that two thousand of those were actually active Hamas terrorists. Or that MoH says some people died in an Israeli strike, but really, you guessed it, it was a malfunctioning Palestinian rocket or even terrorists directly targeting disloyal population and then misattributing it to Israeli strikes. There is an obvious bias behind that sort of scepticism, though, and I don't think even if UN published their own similar numbers independently, it would completely dissuade people from that thinking. There are already tensions between Israel and UN that will probably result in more Israel supporters completely disregarding any data from international organisations. https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-halts-un-staff-visas-as-officials-pan-guterress-truly-insane-hamas-remarks/
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Oct 25, 2023 14:46
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Gumball Gumption posted:We're down to "Our tragic child martyrs, their evil terrorist martyrs." It's obviously a language/tradition divide. I don't imagine people who died in 9/11 attacks could be called martyrs by mainstream media in the West. From what I see on the internet, however, in context of Palestine, the word has acquired the meaning of a victim/casualty in general, not just someone who dies actively supporting the cause. In English, and in (post-)Christian cultures in general, a martyr is understood to be someone who died due to adhering to certain ideals or religion. Christians wouldn't consider someone a Christian martyr, if they died in a car accident or were killed by an oppressive regime but weren't a Christian. Plus people are probably more exposed to the word being used in the name of al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, so the confusion is at least somewhat understandable.
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Oct 25, 2023 18:42
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Engorged Pedipalps posted:Isn't this literally what y'all are arguing in maintaining the israeli apartheid state? That is not a good argument. Only 10% of Israelis have dual citizenship, and out of those not all have a place to go in the other country, and not all even reside in Israel as is. Not to mention that should any international body try to displace ~7 million Israeli Jews, a lot of them would fight with the same conviction as Hamas to avoid that. You're proposing 70 Nagorno-Karabakhs somehow to happen peacefully and not destabilise the region further, it's completely unfeasible at this point. I also strongly disagree with the implication that there is something inherently wrong with Israeli people that would prevent them from having a state that doesn't commit atrocities. Israel doesn't have to continue to exist as an apartheid state. Laws can be changed, international oversight can be properly maintained, and public opinion can be swayed, if there is political will. There is, unfortunately, not enough political will from major players to pressure Israel, but there is literally zero political will to displace millions of Israeli Jews.
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Oct 25, 2023 20:44
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Kalit posted:I wish they would note the source, I can't find anything about it and there's no live white house press briefing I could only find this statement from October 10. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/foreign/israel-war-white-house-no-red-lines-netanyahu-downplays-gaza-siege quote:“I’m not here to draw red lines or issue warnings or give lectures to anybody,” Sullivan said. “I’m here to say that the president has given us direction to take a series of actions. We are undertaking those actions, and we will continue to do so.” I think someone upthread mentioned that Spectator Index wasn't a particularly reliable source. Nail Rat posted:I'll remove that for now, but kind of find it believable. But can't find any briefing. This, however Already deleted, it appears.
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Oct 27, 2023 20:58
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Does the IDF still publish names of all soldiers who died? They definitely did it in the first days after the attack https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-releases-names-of-16-more-soldiers-killed-in-gaza-war-official-toll-at-73/ They also mentioned one soldier who died in the probing attack this week, and three more who died yesterday, but without naming them. The total official number of military losses should be around 300 now, if I collated everything correctly.
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Oct 28, 2023 19:41
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Google Jeb Bush posted:https://twitter.com/John_Hudson/status/1718676405129478344 Israel also claims to have reopened more water pipelines, although I'm not sure how helpful it is without electricity. https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-reopens-second-of-three-water-pipelines-into-gaza/ It does look like America is not entirely happy with what Israel is doing, but it's horrendous that the best Biden's admin can muster publicly is stuff like this sandwiched between promises of unconditional support and vague threats to Iran. quote:Sullivan also said Netanyahu has a responsibility to "rein in" extremist Jewish settlers in the Israeli-occupied West Bank. "It is totally unacceptable to have extremist settler violence against innocent people in the West Bank," he said. quote:“[Hamas are] putting rockets and other terrorist infrastructure in civilian areas. That creates an added burden for the Israeli Defense Forces,” he said. “But it does not lessen their responsibility to distinguish between terrorists and innocent civilians and to protect the lives of innocent civilians as they conduct this military operation.” https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-asking-israel-hard-questions-gaza-military-assault-white-house-2023-10-29/
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Oct 29, 2023 22:19
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