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MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

Randarkman posted:

e: Whatever happened that made CA go away from Jeff van Dyck? All the soundtracks he did for the Total War games were great.

http://jeffvandyck.com/games/alien-isolation-2014/

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MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

BillBear posted:

What would Vampires talk about during pre battle speeches though? The army is undead.. would they just talk about how great they are?

I can't wait to see Greenskin speeches though.

There's quite a few independent Undead in Vampire Count armies who join out of loyalty or a chance to murder/eat/use in other nefarious ways the living. Wights, other Vampires, Ghouls etc. Probably not the best conversation makers, but no self-respecting Vampire is going to pass up an opportunity to grandstand. Also, Sylvanian Vampires, at least in the older books, could take Empire core troops, so maybe they'll be able to here.

And I'd imagine Orc speeches will be along the lines of "Less talk, more killing". Goblin speeches should be good for a laugh, what with them being cowardly backstabbing gits.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

Chakan posted:

I played Rome 2 for like 3 hours and don't remember any of it, what was it like at launch?

It was pretty bad. Some highlights include:

- Buildings gave huge amounts of public disorder and squalor. Combined with the AI's complete inability to manage it and after about 30 turns all of the opposing factions had cities in near-constant revolt and armies so ravaged by disease that their unit counts were constantly in the red.

- Units breaking formation as soon as combat began.

- Randomly spawning a capture point on field battles. If it spawns just outside a deployment zone, sucks to be the other army.

- AI units ignoring wardogs, just standing there as they were mauled to death.

- And my personal favourite, siege assault AI ordering all of it's units to rush towards the capture point, ignoring anything in their path. Even defenders. Nothing like watching lovely garrison units rack up hundreds of kills on units trying to push through them :ughh:

Which is a drat shame because the Emperor Edition is a solid game.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

NoNotTheMindProbe posted:

It's been a few editions since Halflings appeared in an army book sadly.

Empire unit DLC. Or maybe Lumpin Croop's Fighting Cocks will turn up if/when they do Dogs of War.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

peer posted:

Hooray a gameplay quest battle video as orcs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_AD4gHVrWU

Oh that general speech :allears: I knew Ahzag and his Nagash-possessed crown would provide some good speeches.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

Burns posted:

One thing Im not digging in that battle footage is the lighting, its just kind of boring and flat. Also, why do Orcs need a Guard mode? Isnt the whole point of orcs that they are more of a massive, uncontrollable... horde??

It actually fits for Azhag, because he uses distinctly un-orcy tactics thanks to his necromancer-possessed crown.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

madmac posted:

http://i.imgur.com/WcTvcll.jpg

A new screenshot for you Bret lovers out there.

They also posted another "Beware the Ides of March" teaser image yesterday, but meh, you're not missing anything. Just wait for the 15th..

The knights look awesome and all, but that tower in the centre can't be structurally sound.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

Orv posted:

I think the optimal way to do it would be a Lizards, Dark Elves, High Elves, maybe another Chaos faction expansion. Lustria connects to Naggaroth, Ulthuan isn't far off, but I haven't the slightest clue if lizards have ships or if they have a colony somewhere in the Old World.

Lizardmen aren't in the Old World, but they are in the Southlands, past Khemri and the Tomb Kings. There are Beastmen in Naggaroth, so you could have those as well, or have Daemons in the north.

EDIT: While looking up Warhammer maps I came across this post http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?702851-Warhammer! Seems like it would make a base for a good Total War map with all of the major factions (except Skaven it seems)

MadJackMcJack fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Mar 3, 2016

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

CommissarMega posted:

Yeah, I guess that was what I was misremembering, derp.

I think White Wolves were a separate unit in the older books, before they rolled them into one unit. They did a lot of that with the later editions.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

Lassitude posted:

Sylvania is a county in the province of Stirland. It is technically a part of the Empire, but it has been ruled by the Von Carstein bloodline of vampires for centuries. Prior to the Von Carsteins, the county was ruled by ruthless (human) despots, but Vlad von Carstein wed the daughter of the last human lord of Sylvania, so technically rulership of the county fell to him. People were unaware he was a vampire, so the greater Empire didn't really notice/care about what was going on in the lovely backwater county of a lovely province like Stirland.

Sylvania used to be an independent province of The Empire, but was absorbed into Stirland after the last Vampire War. At the time The Empire was in the middle of the Three Emperors period (basically a long-running civil war) who had joined forces to defeat the Vampires, and the Count of Stirland, one of the Emperors, claimed Sylvania as his after the last battle. The other two didn't dispute it, partially because the trio that beat Vlad started fighting each other which allowed the Vampires to rebuild rapidly, and partially because Sylvania is such a shithole they believed it would lead to his downfall.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

Lassitude posted:

He was a pretty cool ruler too apparently. The VCs are overall not nearly as bad as you'd think they'd be. They keep taxes low, they pay people to build castles and stuff for them, and they're usually content to just hang out in the castles and read books and go to parties. I'd vote for Vlad over Trump.

Vlad was a fairly decent ruler by the standards of the Empire. Konrad was batshit-bonkers (he killed his mother for the crime of giving birth to him without his permission) and Mannfred could give Skaven lessons in backstabbing (in The End Times, he literally dooms the world because he cannot resist backstabbing his allies who are trying to save it). The other Counts are rarely much better, seeing the people as little more then cattle.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

Lord Hypnostache posted:

Has it been confirmed that all factions get three legendary lords or is this based on Warriors of Chaos getting three?

It seems to be based on Chaos having three so far. That said, adding another to the current factions would be pretty easy. Dwarfs and Greenskins could get Belegar and Skarsnik quite easily, since both are tied to Karak Eight Peaks which will likely be the focus of a few quests. Empire has quite a few choices but my money would be on Volkmar the murder-pope.

Dre2Dee2 posted:

Also, what is the difference between a lord and a hero

Lords are generals, Heroes are agents (that can also fight on the battlefield)

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

BillBear posted:

Prince Rhaegar Targaryen Sigvald sounds really interesting compared to the rest of Chaos. I wonder how he feels about the elves...

He heard that elves have better hair then him, so he lead a Chaos warband into Ulthuan to scalp as many as possible. During the final battle, the blood reminded him of a wine he disliked, so he wandered off to kill the winemaker in Bretonnia.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

2 SPOOKY posted:

Witch Hunters are definitely more homicidal but from what I recall in the fiction they weren't nearly as common as the Sigmarites and rarely led or accompanied troops into battle.

Witch Hunters are more like Inquisitors. They travel around looking for signs of corruption and witchcraft and deal with any they find. Being Warhammer, their competency ranges from "will spend weeks in careful detective work to root out the true source of the problem" to "gently caress it, burn everyone who looks a bit odd".

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

madmac posted:

Fear causing units are helpful but they aren't going to win the battle for you on their own, especially if your front line is weaker to start with.

Spoken like a man who has never faced a Suebi rush.

And I don't think losing the general should make the army die since general sniping isn't that difficult when you have a lot of arty, and Dwarves and Empire will have a lot of arty.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

And look at what happened to him and his faction. Squatted.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

madmac posted:

Pretty sure the top level towers spit out explosive homing mines, or something equally ridiculous.

Pigeon bombs!

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

S.J. posted:

Sometimes I can't tell if you guys are kidding or not, but



Wait, when did he do bald and psycho? This is the Mannfred I know

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

drgnvale posted:

Speaking of multiplayer, someone explain to me why Shogun 2's multiplayer was good and the later games was less good, please?

It was unique and yet horribly horribly broken. Basically, you had an persistent avatar for your multiplayer (with a second, separate avatar for Fall) that started off with a few basic units. As you played, your avatar gained experience and leveled up. As it leveled up, it could get new unlocks, similar to the tech tree. So say your army could get a bonus to attack or ammo or speed etc. In addition, there was a personal campaign map for your avatar, same as the main campaign map but in the Risk-style of the first Shogun. You could move your marker to a province, and if you won a battle (or after enough losses) you would capture that province. Some gave bonuses, most unlocked new units for you to use. Lastly, if a unit did well in battle, you could make it a veteran unit. This allowed you to customise them (mostly changing the name and colour) and they would gain levels like the avatar, which granted them skill points to spend on upgrading stats.

It's this stat upgrade that made the system horribly broken. Veteran units cost more to bring then a standard unit, but upgraded right they could dominate. Range was the biggest culprit. Due to the lack of shields, archers were deadly in Shogun 2, and the usual counter was bringing your own archers so that even if your archers lost the enemy's archers were too low in number to make a difference. But when a veteran archer unit had range upgrades, that gave them a fairly large window of uncontested fire which typically let them slaughter your non-upgraded archers, at which point you were forced into a desperate charge to avoid getting shot to death. It was worse with Fall armies, since most units were ranged and had a high rate of fire and accuracy. Upgraded Line Infantry could easily break an enemy unit before it even got into range to return fire.

In addition, the only way to unlock new units beyond the crappy units you started with was the campaign map mechanic. And unless you won a fair few battles (unlikely if you were coming to the game some time after release) , you had to lose a lot to get even a few decent units. And then do it again for your other avatar, since it had a separate campaign map. That kind of grind is soul-destroying.

The other main obstacle to making the avatar multiplayer system again is culture. Unless you threw every unit into a massive mixing pot, with all of the hidious balance issues that would cause, you would have to separate avatars by culture. Shogun 2 had 2 cultures, Shogun 2 (with Rise's units thrown in) and Fall of the Samurai. Rome 2 had 8, with another 4 added as DLC. Attila had 6, with another 4 plus all of the Charlemagne factions. Warhammer is starting with at least 4, maybe 6 if Chaos and the Brets are added. Who the hell wants to grind out dozens upon dozens of battles just so you don't have to use militia-tier units?

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

dd209 posted:

I was flicking through some old armybooks and wondering what ever happened to hobgoblins and half-orcs? Did they specifically get written out of the setting or just quietly dropped? I have a vague memory of hobgoblins coming back as a Dogs of War unit in the early 00s or something.

Half-Orcs got chucked out as soon as Orcs became genderless fungus people. Hobgoblins were a Dogs of War units, but in the fluff most of them were slaves of the Chaos Dwarves, so mostly disappeared with them.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

Rygar201 posted:

I kind of like that towards the end of Fantasy Orcs weren't even explicitly fungus. They were just there. Like any sufficiently lovely area could spawn Orcs when it isn't being observed. Orcy action at a distance, if you will.

Well that's the thing, the biology of Fantasy Greenskins was never discussed in the army books. All of the fungus stuff came from 40K, and it was kind of assumed that the same held for Fantasy. While the 40K books went into some detail about the Ork life cycle and how they propagated, in Fantasy it was a case of "Greenskins simply exist".

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

Angry Lobster posted:

We have spontaneously turned into TWC, but with less serbian nationalists.

But more Sylvanian nationalists :drac:

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

Safety Factor posted:

This isn't even what they're doing. I think it's just scoring for tournaments or something dumb. Age of Sigmar doesn't have point values and this is somehow touted as a good thing.

Wait, what!? So what's to stop someone with a large collection from sticking their entire army onto the table and steamrolling their opponent (aside from being beaten around the head with a nearby rulebook)?

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

CommissarMega posted:

If your D&D backstory isn't "I became an adventurer so I could roll in bitches and blow" you're not doing it right. Unless you're a Paladin, in which case "I'm here to kick rear end for the Gods" would also be acceptable.

Paladins should be like this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfkHkdu5IEI

MadJackMcJack fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Apr 3, 2016

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

Vlex posted:

How would another developer even go about competing against CA without cloning Total War?

There have been a few games that follow the basic formula, or at least parts of it. Praetorians, Imperial Glory, Hegemony, King Arthur, Mark of Chaos, some weird Chinese game that popped up on Steam a while back for £70 :psyduck: However, they've all lacked the scale of the Total War games, and coupled with other issues none of them matched up (well, I dunno about the Chinese game, but it seemed to be getting bad reviews, so I'll throw it in).

Mans posted:

Yeah let's port that poo poo over to warhammer. Want to play an MP battle as the Orks? Great, here's slugga boyz, everything else you have to grind against elited armies. GOTY

Slugga Boyz are 40K :spergin: That said, would love to see some Sluggaz in Warhammer, if only to see Orcs finally get the shooting advantage :orks:


Chomp8645 posted:

You're right that singular mechanic that even people who really enjoyed Avatar Conquest agree was bad defines the entire system. Obv the only thing people mean when they say "MP like Avatar Conquest" is that you lock units away. That's literally the only thing.

Also no rough system in the history of video games has been improved in a second iteration. Ridiculous to even suppose such a thing.

Without unit unlocking there's no reason to have a progression system outside of cosmetic unlocks, and gently caress grinding for those.

MadJackMcJack fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Apr 4, 2016

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

lilspooky posted:

They could hopefully add Grom the Paunch of Misty Mountain as a gobbo LL.

Grom would be better off being added with the High Elves, since his personal quest would likely involve sailing over to them to give them a good kicking.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

Delacroix posted:

The total war precedent has been that mercenaries exist to be thrown away so you don't pay for their upkeep. There's only a handful of unique units that are worth keeping alive, excluding things like hiring hoplites as rome (because why not), elephants as a non-elephant faction or artillery because you didn't bring any.

Dogs of war belong in a setting like mount and blade where they can shop around for contracts rather than be a novelty hidden amongst a dozen stacks.

I think Dogs of War could fit into a Total War game, but it would either be as it's own faction (so basically Tilea), or a version of the way they do it in Dominions, where there's a global mercenaries pool and anyone can bid on a regiment. Highest bidder gets the regiment for a set time, and then it returns to the pool.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

CommissarMega posted:

Yeah, from what I've heard skinks were perhaps the most cost-effective unit in the game, especially against high-cost, low-quantity armies like Brets and Ogres.

Skinks were a pain in the arse in 6th and 7th because they were a Fantasy unit that operated like a 40K unit and had poisoned weapons that gave their low-strength blowpipes a chance to insta-kill anyone. Not great against horde armies like Greenskins or Skaven, but yea, elite armies like Brets and Ogres were in for a rough time.

Of course, just to prove we can't have nice things, some players started using nothing but Skinks, which was OP as gently caress and very un-fun to play against.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

DreamShipWrecked posted:

After playing some of the series over last weekend, I am confident that I will enjoy this game because I have no sense of tactics or micro, which makes me the perfect Orc player

Orc tactics:

1: CTRL + A
2: Right-click on an enemy unit
3: Job'z a gud 'un!

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009
The thing with Chaos is that all of the above is true, because it's Chaos. By it's very nature it's constantly changing on a whim. In fact, there is only one true constant, which is

Perestroika posted:

maximum grimdark all day every day

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

Night10194 posted:

This will always be the biggest problem with Chaos. The Gods are micromanaging douchebags.

On the plus side, this is why they will never win. Right guys? ..........right :unsmith:

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

madmac posted:

Earlier in the presentation he said they had 12 city layouts "that look completely different between factions" I'm going to read that as 12 total layouts and not 12 layouts per race, as I can't see the latter ever happening.

The sad thing is I know people are going to lose their loving minds over "12 LAYOUTS!11>?", which is dumb. I'd much rather have 12 layouts that the AI can exploit enough to give a challenge then infinite layouts that the AI can't navigate and end up cramming into one easily-defended gate.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

Fresh Shesh Besh posted:

I've already forgotten all the spell names so don't crucify me, but are the green pac-man and the flaming skull from the Chaos v. Empire video supposed to function exactly the same in tabletop? And are the white vortex and purple vortex spells supposed to function exactly the same? Because they look exactly the same. I thought it was funny in the video when he said the white vortex was "similar" to the other one when in fact they look literally the same aside from color.

This isn't really a complaint, but considering that a lot of spells are buff spells it seems like a lot of the magic we might see is just similar stuff reskinned for its respective faction.

To be fair, there's not a huge amount of variation you can have in the basic purpose of a spell. The two spells might have subtle differences (say the purple spell does more overall damage but the white spell is armour-piercing), but ultimately they are both about murdering dudes. And buffs and debuffs are all geared towards the same purpose, to ensure that your dudes can murder better while being more resistant to being murdered. And the delivery method is also limited. Static AoE, mobile AoE, beam, single-target, self. There's only so much they can do mechanically.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

Washout posted:

They get organ guns, flame cannons, and regular cannons too. I'm just disappointed that I don't get a screaming skull catapult for vampires, those things were awesome in tabletop. Also no skeletal archers wtf.

As said above, skullapults are Tomb Kings only. And Vampire Counts lost skeleton archers in the later editions. They became a primarily melee army, with their only ranged firepower coming from spells.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

Dandywalken posted:

I dunno, I'm worried potentially about how we'll fare up vs Chaos as Greenskins.

Why? Big 'uns should be able to go toe-to-toe with Warriors, Greenskins actually have ranged units that would also be fairly decent in melee, they have missile cav (always a pain in Total War), they can match Chaos monster for monster, and at this moment Fanatics are on the roster :orks101:

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

Dandywalken posted:

Our lack of anti-cav options is what sorta makes me pause. Goblins aside, that is. Do we know what Savage Orcs get as weapons? Or is it just that one Goblin subtype with spears.


Dunno about Savage Orcs yet. They could take spears in TT, but it doesn't really fit their theme of berserking infantry. My guess is that anti-cav will involve tar pitting with gobbos and then sending in the big hitters. Or the old tabletop standby of Fanatics. Plus if Squigs do get added, they'd make a great anti-cav unit (counter-cav tactics could represent them gnawing on the horse's legs).

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009
Greenskinz iz da best! :orks101:

Also, are people really still pissing and moaning about Denuvo?

MadJackMcJack fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Apr 26, 2016

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

Triskelli posted:

I have my reservations about how pronounced the knockdown on dwarfs. On the tabletop the Dwarfs all have an innate resistance to being charged, but based on these unit cards only Longbeards and Ironbreakers can stand up to any sort of charge. I mean granted we've got a worst case scenario for the Dwarfs in this video but outside of Ungrim Ironfist I don't think I saw a dwarf stay standing when it could've been knocked down. It wouldn't be so bad, but then the bombs dropped by the Gyrobomber didn't cause any knockdown that I could see, which feels like an especially nasty double standard.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying a group of Thunderers should be able to tank a hit from Kholek "I hit like a freight-train full of neutron stars" Suneater, but it's really important that the Dwarfs can stand up to charges when they lack any sort of polearms.

I'm guessing Dwarf infantry will have a whole mess of abilities which increase the unit's mass, like brace and shield wall, which should mitigate a lot of their aerodynamics.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009
It's a sad day when you realise that a bonkers world like Warhammer is the more subtle of the two.

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MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

xthetenth posted:

Of the two? Are we comparing to Warcraft or the real world?

The real world. Specifically, the puffy clothes.

Phi230 posted:

Any tabletop experts out there have tips on tge steam tank and how it will play in TWW?

It seems lackluster in melee and its a standard cannon just on wheels. Is it a specialized giant killer?

It's an armoured elephant with a cannon basically.

genericnick posted:

The only thing about the presentation I just can't love is how the legendary lords interact. Just standing in a clump of units getting whacked without showing any kind of reaction while watching a health bar going down slowly just doesn't do it for me any more.

The guy in the last video mentions that. When the lords reacted to every hit, they got stun-locked. Which would lead to the mightiest heroes getting killed by zombies.

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