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Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


I've said this before, but the only reason to read the Shatnerverse books is to see the Reeve-Stevens spitballing their own ideas for the Trekverse. In The Return, they imagine the Borg having different "branches" that have different approaches to assimilation and expansion. One branch is more into biotech, one converts subjects into patterned energy (i.e. the guys V'ger ran into), and honestly it's way more interesting than anything canon Trek did with them after TNG ended.

Mind you, none of this holds a candle to their DS9 Millenium trilogy, where the second book pretty much becomes Trek's answer to WH40K, complete with Ayatollah Weyoun leading the Bajorans against the remains of Starfleet led by Alzheimer's Picard.

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Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

That profile's not nearly accurate to Excelsior. Was that made in like 1984 by someone whose only reference was having seen the movie a month ago?
That there is actually the Ingram class, a fanon ship from way back in the 1980s. It's supposed to have been developed alongside the Excelsior, but with certain obvious unique features.

Gammatron 64 posted:

Of course, like many Trekkies, I really just love Federation ships period and like how a lot of them are kitbashes of each other and have stylistic "generations" -

NX-01 \ NX Intrepid \ Warp Delta
Constitution \ Antares \ Deadalus
Constitution Refit \ Miranda \ Constellation \ Sydney
Excelsior \ Centaur
Ambassador
Galaxy \ Nebula \ New Orleans \ Intrepid
Defiant
Akira \ Steamrunner
Sovereign \ Nova \ Prometheus
I always really liked that about Federation ships. It's a bit of a pity that these days it's easier to whip up a completely different ship on a computer than it is to stick random model parts together until something looks decent. I think some of those kitbashes have potential if you do another few passes on them. Look how the Nebula turned out, after all.

(Also, I've finally just realized that the reason they had all those weird designs in First Contact is because they didn't want anything flying around with the same silhouette as the Ent-E. Aside from the Akiras, Norways, Steamrunners, Sabers, and Defiant, the only ships from the shows we see in the battle are Nebulas and Mirandas.)

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Oh yeah, on the subject of Trek games...I weakened and reinstalled STO recently, and I had a spin with the new "Temporal Agent" character type. You get to play as a 23rd century Starfleet captain and play around in that time period for your first few levels before you're dumped into the main Federation campaign. It's cute seeing everything done in the TOS style, but for me the best part was that Daniels from Enterprise shows up, and the game's storyline makes him a complete piece of poo poo.

I'm serious. You start off in your little putt-putt ship, fistfighting guys in rubber costumes at the Vasquez Rocks, then one of your security guys introduces himself as Daniels and lays this whole "temporal cold war" thing on you. At first it's all fun and games; you get to run around in the background of "Journey to Babel," keeping the Time Nosferatus from whacking Kirk. Then you pop back in time to just before "The Tholian Web" to watch the 400 men and women of the USS Defiant die horrible deaths, only to be told you can't do anything because timeline. Finally, you end up in a big battle with the Klingons and are completely outmatched, resulting in the loss of your ship. Quick as a flash, Daniels pops you into the tardis, tells you that history says you died at that battle, but because you're such a valuable asset, he's gonna download a bunch of information into your brain and dump you in the early 25th century where you'll do some work for him on the side.

So, just imagine the scene: this Andorian lady in the TOS onepiece comes stumbling out of a broom closet, blearily glaring at the lights and displays of Earth Spacedock, while all around her people are saying "gnarly costume, bra." All the while she's thinking My family is dead. All my friends are dead. Everything I knew and loved about the world is gone. I have a migraine and my eyes aren't focusing right. I am now time bitch for Sheldon from "The Big Bang Theory" for the rest of my life, which, considering he is a time lord, will probably last until sometime after the Sun has shriveled into a black husk. And there is no one in the universe that I can talk to about this. In other words, Crewman Daniels is the reason I cut.

Mind you, it's not all bad. The only free TOS ship you get is the Pioneer class, which pretty much the hull profile for the patrol escort (engineer-heavy tac ship) with TOS parts. Nice design for a little putt-putt ship.



Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


The Dark One posted:

Did they make the Daedelus model out of a can of shaving cream, a tennis ball and some cigar tubes? The shape is amateurish compared to basically every other design in the history of the franchise.

It's also based more or less directly on a concept sketch Matt Jeffries did back in the 1960s when he was designing the Enterprise.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Oh wow...Strange Horizons just published the only review of Star Trek Beyond that anyone needs to read. It's a bit of a gag, sure, but it's one of the few things I've read that articulates why none of these reboot movies have ever worked for me.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Kibayasu posted:

Isn't that the outfit Mirrior Universe Odo wears?

It looks more like the uniform he had during the first two seasons. After the first mirror universe episode, Auberjonois liked the costume he had, so the costuming people redesigned his regular uniform to fit more like that one.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


QuantaStarFire posted:

Didn't Terry Farrel also have issues with being outside and poo poo? Like, actual health reasons? I've heard it mentioned, but never really heard any details regarding it.
From what I remember, she had problems being in the sun for extended periods of time, which made shooting things like "Let He Who Is Without Sin..." a bitch and a half to work around. 'Course, between that, the writing problems, and the tackburrs on the beach, I tend to believe God himself was trying to get that episode canned and they just didn't listen.

As for Siddig, I totally understand why the augment revelation would've pissed him off. Look at it in context: in the middle of the fifth season, it was revealed that he'd been replaced by a changeling for about 3-4 episodes. Unfortunately, this was a spur-of-the-moment revelation by the writers, so he'd been playing Bashir "wrong" for all those episodes. Two episodes later and they pull the same stunt with the augment revelation, which means he was basically playing the character wrong since day one. If I was an actor, I'd be pretty pissed off too, and I'd be half expecting the "Bashir is secretly a woman who's fallen in love with Miles" script to land in my mailbox any moment.

MorgaineDax posted:

Didn't they have to redub his voice because it was so bad in that episode? I really want to hear that original voice.

The one I remember was when Avery Brooks was playing Joran Dax in "Facets" and in the first take he did this quiet creepy voice and apparently everyone on the crew thought it was too intense.

Marshal Radisic fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Nov 1, 2016

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Oh god, you guys just reminded me that they continued that Temporal Cold War bullshit in Star Trek Online and it just kept getting dumber and dumber and dumber. The only noteworthy thing is that just about everything about the war is the player character's fault on some level. Sphere Builders? Friendly Delta Quadrant aliens who got screwed over while you were playing with a replica of the Krenim Timeship. Future Guy? Krenim dude with a murder boner whose waifu was a pre-revision Sphere Builder. The Na'kuhl? The Tholians nuke their sun with a Tox Uthat and you just sit their with your thumb up your rear end despite the fact you helped save another star in the previous mission.

Oh, and the crispy critter in the TARDIS pod? Kal Dano. WHEELS WITHIN WHEELS.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Gonna swerve back to starship chat for a second.

Has anyone else felt that the starships of Trek have always had this sort of special significance to the show that's unique among SF franchises? I mean, when I was a little kid, it was the ships that got me into Trek. I spent literal years imagining my own ships through drawing, Legos, and video games, and I spent more time than a sane child should looking at places like the Daystrom Institute Technical Library and Bernd Schneider's site. Even back in the '80s, when the TOS movies were coming out, people were publishing actual books that discuss starships with the rigorousness most people would use to discuss WWII surface fleets. Star Wars has done similar stuff, true, but it's never felt the same to me, like all the technology and statistics are just meaningless, even though Trek's statistics are also frivolous. I suppose what I'm getting at is that Trek's ships have always felt like they had a place and a history to me, that they are unique environments but are also part of something greater, both in terms of being part of a fleet and part of a fictional history. It's something you really started to feel more with TNG, when we began to see the world outside the Enterprise and watch ships and crews that were just as important in their own way as Kirk and Picard. This may ultimately be one of the main reasons I've never liked the reboot; to Abrams, the Enterprise is just a big truck the characters ride around in. If it gets blown up, who cares?

I do wonder where Trek gets this feature from. My own guess is that TOS is something that was grown out of WWII American military culture, particularly Gene's air career and the way American pilots identified with their planes. Just look at the fight he had with Harve Bennett over destroying the Enterprise in STIII; Gene flew planes in WWII, and took the idea of losing one personally, while Bennett flew choppers in Korea and had the attitude that starships were basically interchangeable.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


WickedHate posted:

Well, this was also the time period they were supposed to be locked in a brutal war with the Cardassians.

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

Yeah but the Cardassians were a retcon and didn't exist prior to season four.

I thought we mostly rationalized that by imagining the "war" as a low-intensity conflict along a disputed border that just dragged on for years. Colonies get raided, ships snipe at one another, but no actual set piece battles. The Cardies don't have the power projection to make major gains, and the Federation is busy doodling away with exploration, internal consolidation, and other low-intensity conflicts (wasn't Sisko involved in a Space Gulf War with the Tzekenthi at some point?), so nothing really gets resolved until the Cardies start having larger internal problems and start agreeing to major concessions in the 2360s.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


WrathOfBlade posted:

I like the very first augment Bashir episode a lot, but I kind of have to cringe and look the other way every time it's brought up after that. Bashir rattling off odds like C-3PO is almost as bad as Dukat turning into a Pah-wraith.

Ya know, I can kinda buy the Pah-wraith thing if I read Dukat as a guy who takes risky gambles and trusts in his "superior intellect" to figure a way out of any potential problems. He's the guy who saw and read second-hand everything there was to know about the Dominion, and still decided to ally Cardassia with them, all while figuring he'd be the one to come out on top at the end. I imagine he thought something similar with that Pah-wraith plan, but ended up drastically underestimating the effect of letting an alien god live inside him. I actually imagine that Dukat, Cardassian Hitler, accidentally killed himself when he let that Pah-wraith in, and the guy in Season 7 was Dukat rewritten by the Pah-wraith to become the Bajoran Antichrist. Makes as much sense as anything.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


bull3964 posted:

When comparing shows, I always like to ask people which have episodes that are still relevant today.

Among others, TNG has 'The Drumhead', DS9 has 'In the Pale Moonlight', Voyager has......?

Um...the one where the Doctor is abducted by the space HMO? And the space death penalty one...that's something, right?

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Grand Fromage posted:

I liked the bumbling around loving up in early Enterprise. Archer got command because his daddy built the spaceship and Starfleet had no idea what they're doing and wouldn't listen to the Vulcans because SHUT UP DAD, I CAN DO IT MYSELF

There's something fitting about the idea that the captains of Archer's generation went on to gently caress up random alien planets, kill their own crews, and create all messes that Kirk (and occasionally Picard) had to un-gently caress centuries later. I mean, let's face it, Archer is the sort of captain that hands out gangster history books to aliens who don't know any better.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Quick question for anyone who's read the second volume of The Fifty-Year Mission: is there any interview with Jennifer Lien about her time on Voyager or discussion of why she was fired? I'd heard rumors she had problems even while she was on the show, but before that arrest I'd just dismissed those as bad fan gossip.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


skooma512 posted:

Speaking of Red Squad I can't believe Starfleet crammed a bunch of cadets on the best ship they have and were just like whatever kids have fun. You would think they would have check in once in a
while, find out there's no senior staff abroad and be like what the gently caress are you guys doing get back to a starbase now. I thought the angle on Valiant was that they straight up mutinied and got rid of the senior staff themselves.

A ship of Wesleys going all Battlestar Pegasus and nobody at Starfleet seems to wonder what happened?

I thought the idea was that before the Defiant was sent to DS9, the whole class was considered a failed experiment. Starfleet probably handed the Valiant off to the Academy under the logic of "eh, most of its systems are going to become fleet-standard in the next decade or so, let the kiddies fly on this trash ship just so they get the feel of everything."

As for the Valiant itself, I believe the story was they were on a mission to circumnavigate the Federation, got stuck behind the lines when the Dominion War started, all the actual officers got killed, and the kids took over.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Railing Kill posted:

That quote reminds me of the M. Night Shamalan Avatar: the Last Airbender movie. Shamalan swears he is a big fan of the show, but he has everyone in his movie consistently mispronounce everything. Instead of a long "a" in Aang, it's a short "a." Ah-ng. Sokka's sock-a becomes soh-ka. He even has everyone pronounce the word "avatar" with a short "a," like ah-vah-tar. Avatar is an actual loving word, so why would you have everyone mispronounce it?! It's loving infuriating, and that's without even mentioning how godawful everything else about that movie is. The pronunciation more than anything else proves that he's full of poo poo and didn't watch the show. It would be one less thing to complain about if he just owned-up and admitted he didn't know or care anything about the source material.

Funny thing about The Last Airbender is that it fell into the same problem NuTrek has. Paramount somehow got it into its head that it would become the next giant film franchise (IIRC, the idea was that they'd make each of the three seasons into a movie and have their own LOTR trilogy), so there were a whole lot of unreasonable expectations for the movie to be a phenomenal success. Then they went and hired a guy best known for medium-low budget supernatural thrillers to direct it, and the result was basically David Lynch's Dune without the charming idiosyncrasy.

Come to think of it, when I think of the tribulations of the Avatar franchise, I keep thinking of Star Trek as a comparison. I still sometimes consider Legend of Korra as a sorta-TNG/DS9 hybrid to the original show (there's even a ~100 year timeskip between the shows) that wasn't able to reach its fullest potential, a matter due in part to keeping the same production team between shows.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Pokemaster #421 posted:

So it's been many a year since I watched an episode of voyager but it's been bothering me for years so I figured I'd ask here. I remember watching an episode where Janeway seems to die or has like an outer body experience or something and she seemingly meets God who is trying to convince her to come to the afterlife. This is an actual episode right? I think I watched it all fever stricken so I'm not sure if it's something I imagined or if it's a real thing. It's real right? I can't for the life of me remember the name or season or anything but I don't think 7 was in it yet. Could be wrong though

Actually, it's just a single parter called "Coda" Spoiler alert: it's kinda dumb.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Cojawfee posted:

Why were they even refining things? They have replicators and transporters that can remove people's weapons and parasites and whatever. Beam the raw material up, rematerialize the parts you want and send the rest back.

Arglebargle III posted:

The Cardassians were recovering from a multi-planet economic collapse with grim state-controlled industrial expansion.

Also add to that the implication throughout DS9 that Cardassian tech isn't to to snuff compared to Federation tech. Their transporters and replicators simply might not be able to do it efficiently.

Come to think of it, the Cardassian Union always did seem to be a hair's breadth from falling apart. The last time I watched "Chain of Command," I was surprised to hear Gul Madred talking about living through the equivalent of bread riots on Cardassia Prime as a child. Even counting in the wonky ways DS9 "established" Cardassian lifespans, that'd still put his childhood somewhere between the later TOS movies and the early 24th century, which really puts it into perspective. Were things ever that bad on Qo'nos, even after Praxis blew up?

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


skasion posted:

As usual, the astropolitics of Trek make no sense. Two years after the Romulans blew up the Ent-C and Narendra III, they were still the Klingons' allies somehow. Then they blew up the colony on Khitomer with Duras' help and the Klingons got the message.

There's also stuff like having the Cardassians be introduced as a major(ish) interstellar power in the middle of the fourth season out of nowhere, leaving the fans to backfill the 24th century and figure out how they would have fit in with everything else. (Though come to think of it, I've never seen anyone come up with a decent in-universe explanation as to why the Cardassians were nonentities in the TOS/TOS movie era.)

As for Klingon-Romulan relations, they seem to have a weird love-hate relationship. They were pretty chummy in TOS, but had become bitter rivals by the movie era (according to Geordi in the "Redemption" two-parter). They then got chummy again in the early-mid 24th century, only for the whole Narendra III/Khitomer thing to happen. Personally I accept seesaws like that by just assuming there is tons of internal and external politics that we're just not seeing onscreen.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


bull3964 posted:

I would say 'over designed' seems like an appropriate criticism for what we've seen if Discovery so far.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the thought going into some of these elements, but there's a level of overkill going on and that meticulous detail is never going to translate through the screen. It seems like a lot of resources going to something that no one is going to be able to appreciate.

It feels like they are designing the props and costumes for display in an exhibit rather than elements used for story telling.

That reminds something someone else on the Internet wrote about Discovery's production design that chimes with most of what I've seen of the show.

quote:

Discovery's production design, however, is overall a chaotic blend of styles that don't fit together. Communicator, tricorder, phasers: TOS retro style. Starfleet bridges: Abramsverse. Discovery exterior: based on a sketch discarded for good reasons 40 years ago. Shenzhou exterior: 24th century. Shenzhou transporter: steampunk. Klingon ship: Gothic cathedral. Klingon costumes and props: ridiculously overdesigned. Klingon species: anything but Klingon.

The production design is good in the details (even the Klingon design has its merits although I hate it) but overall arbitrary. It is like many people with different agendas are working on the show, and just don't talk to each other. Or like people who boldly try to defy the principle that you can't have everything at once. I miss the old days when Matt Jefferies or Herman Zimmerman were in charge of the Art Department, who gave their shows a signature look, a feeling that it all belongs together.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Grand Fromage posted:

Stellaris Trek mod is in the top five of Star Trek games. I really hope they finish it well and it doesn't get torn apart by modding drama or some poo poo before then.

From what I've heard there's two Trek mods in development for Stellaris. There's Star Trek: New Horizons, which has been getting some good buzz as of late, and there's Star Trek: Infinities, which is still in early development but is being made by most of the same people who made the Armada 3 mod for Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion. The two teams have been considering collaboration, but the two mods have rather different design goals and interpretations of Trek, so for the moment it looks like the two will continue on their separate paths. I'm a little more excited for Infinities, if only because of the pedigree of Armada 3.

Gotta admit, I'm kinda curious how both will handle stuff like ENT and TOS-era Cardassians. Federation stuff is easy, since all you need to do is watch the shows, and you can handle the Klingons and Romulans with a mix of the shows and a few video games (usually some combination of the SFC series for TMP-era stuff, the Armada Series for TNG and later, and Legacy for most any era). For stuff like the Cardassians and the Dominion you're pretty much in unexplored territory.

Marshal Radisic fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Jul 26, 2017

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Nessus posted:

Didn't they also casually exterminate the Maquis?

Yep, and they also drove the Klingons out of Cardassian space at the same time.

You know, when you stack up the Gowron-Duras Civil War, the invasion of the Cardassian Union, their skirmishes with the Federation, their eviction from Cardassian space by the Dominion, and the Dominion, the Klingon Empire (especially their fleet) has been hammered pretty hard by the end of DS9. I kinda think Sloane was on the money when he said that after the Dominion War, the two big powers in the region in the next two decades would be the Romulans and the Federation. Too bad the only thing that ever came of that was Nemesis.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Drone posted:

They all seem to be pretty insular and do their own thing, as far as we've ever seen. The only time I can really think of any sort of association between them being mentioned was in some pretty bad Trek novel (Q Squared) where Q and Trelane from TOS squared off against each other. But I'm pretty sure Peter David just retconned Trelane so that he was a Q so I guess that doesn't count.

At any rate we know half of the Q are literally suicidal due to boredom, so I'm sure godlike beings don't tend to stick around very long.

Bite your tongue. Q-Squared is the best Trek novel with Q in it, and I'll brook no dissent on this point.

But as for your larger point, yeah most godlike beings in Trek don't seem to do much but hang around by themselves. A few like to stick with a particular planet (the Organians, the Prophets), but not all of them do. There's probably some sort of greater hierarchy among them that us meatbags aren't privy that separates the masters of time and space from your run-of-the-mill sentient gas cloud.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


skooma512 posted:

If you loved BSG, DS9 is where Ronald D Moore got his start. It's not the same, but it's definitely as close as you're gonna get in Star Trek.

Moore actually got his start on TNG; "Sins of the Father" is actually one of his episodes, and it's the one that cemented his reputation as "the Klingon guy" on the show. He honed his skills on DS9, and as for Voyager...well, it was a regrettable experience for all concerned.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


MisterBibs posted:

The franchise has been chasing the high of a mainstream success since TNG ended, and the reality of modern entertainment means it will never be able to reach it again.
Yeah. I mean, even Ron Moore figured that out in the mid-1990s. In that old interview from 2002 about his time on Voyager, Moore said that sometime around late 1994, he saw a picture of Shatner and Stewart on the cover of Time magazine and realized that there was nowhere higher up to go. But no, Paramount wanted to make that sweet Avengers money, so we eventually got JJTrek. (Mind you, it's not the first time they've done this. The whole reason that terrible The Last Airbender movie exists is that some executive thought they could turn the Avatar series into their own Lord of the Rings trilogy.)

Marshal Radisic fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jul 31, 2017

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Gaz-L posted:

Nah, this was "You're the most responsible kid and I'm the last adult and am dying: Take the car home" and the dipshit turns around and goes "Dad said I'm in charge!"

I do kind of like "Captain" Tim Watters' character, if only for the idea of someone who's desperately trying to be Jim Kirk but without Kirk's instincts or wisdom.

Gaz-L posted:

Honestly, they probably could've done so, but Shyamalan doesn't do well with big budgets. I also weirdly think one of the big issues with that film is trying to be TOO faithful to the source material, because it ends up feeling very episodic, and because it's shorter than a season of the cartoon, no episode gets much time so it feels rushed. (The other big issues being the whitewashing, the bad dialogue, bad acting, bad greenscreen effects and the infamous "change a prison for Earthbenders from being on the ocean to being in a loving QUARRY!" thing)
Yeah, I get the feeling that Shyamalan was/is most comfortable with low-to-medium budget thrillers and was just totally out of his depth on a gigantic vfx-heavy fantasy epic, though I have heard stories that increasing pressure from the suits at Paramount over the course of filming also took its toll on him and slowly killed his enthusiasm for the project.

It all kinda reminds of how David Lynch was totally out of his element on Dune, though I feel Lynch is the more talented filmmaker.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Orv posted:

Does The Vanishing of Wesley Crusher have anything to do with the thematics of Chakotay, or did someone in Trek circles just get way into Native American stuff around then?

I just checked Memory Alpha, and according to Jeri Taylor, her intention was that Chakotay came from Dorvan V. However, this was never mentioned on Voyager, so I kinda wonder if it became a Nick Lorcano/Tom Paris situation, and Chakotay actually came from a completely different planet of Native Americans in the Cardassian DMZ.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


cheetah7071 posted:

There's a real-life substance that tastes identical to sugar but the body can't metabolize, it's just expensive as gently caress to make (it's the same molecule as sugar, just reversed). Presumably it's no harder for the replicator to make than real sugar though

There's also cyclamate, which was the first sugar substitute to be used in diet soft drinks. Of course, they banned it in the US in the late '60s for being a carcinogen, but it's since come out that those studies were paid for by the sugar lobby and they were essentially feeding monkeys the same amount of cyclamate you'd get by chugging 40+ cans of TaB a day, so who knows how dangerous it actually is.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Jeb! Repetition posted:

Did they know people hated Wesley at this point? If so it's cruel for them to tease everybody with the idea of him leaving the show.
They were made aware of it fairly early on. Regardless of your opinions of Wil Wheaton today, ya gotta feel a little for the guy. I mean, he was fifteen, he was on Star Trek, and he kept getting fan mail about how much he sucks and finding newsgroups like alt.wesley.crusher.die.die.die. No kid deserves to see that.

Trickjaw posted:

I've just been watching some previous con panels, and it occurs to me that Andy Robinson (I can call him that, I met him so stfu) he could do an awesome Joker. He already has the serial killer chops. How loving great would that be, when he gets rid of that ratty ponytail. Tuck or to and his disgusting presents.
That's probably the exact reason why he would never play the Joker. After Dirty Harry, his performance as the Scorpio Killer essentially became an albatross around his neck, and people kept giving murderer roles. Heck, on DS9 they had to rework the script for "Empok Nor" after Robinson read the first pitch and felt it just had him doing the same old shtick again.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Sash! posted:

Also, I'm pretty sure 1984 doesn't count as that because Winston is pretty sure there was a nuclear war, then a civil war in the UK, and the Party won the civil war.
Yeah, Nineteen Eighty-Four is more of a pessimistic speculation based on Orwell's criticisms of Stalinism, Nazism, Britain's behavior in the Second World War, and of a contemporary American political theorist that barely anyone remembers these days.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Arglebargle III posted:

Our only hope now is one plucky lieutenant named Sisko.

And what a lucky young man he is! A lieutenant commander at thirty-five, a beautiful wife that means the world to him, a wonderful son he adores, and a respectable position as first officer of the Saratoga that's on the right track to a captaincy. Nothing can spoil his day!

Actually, this revisit of BoBW has me wondering something really nerdy. Anyone remember Star Trek: Borg, that old broken-rear end FMV game that only ran on Windows 3.1? The majority of the game has you riding around on an Excelsior-class ship (USS Righteous?) that's tailing the cube from BoBW up until Wolf 359, and I do kinda wonder how to fit the game's story in with the timeline of the episodes. My own guess is that after the Enterprise's deflector burns out and they stall for repairs, the Righteous picks up on the cube shortly after, they tail it while the game's storyline plays out, and then they're "destroyed" at Wolf 359. Basically, the entire game's story takes place concurrently with the first two acts of BoBWII, though with just enough leeway that the Righteous and the Enterprise never interact. (Not sure about spoilers with Jeb watching, but why take a chance?)

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


CobiWann posted:

Thank you! I made the mistake of mentioning how I wouldn't mind running a one-shot of the new Star Trek RPG once it comes out and our 7th Sea session ended up turning into an hour long discussion about what era we'd play in, what class of ship we'd be on, and who would be what section of crewmen, right down to someone swearing she wouldn't be the person who just repeats everything the computer says.
Cool! If you're looking around for Federation ships from the TOS era to use, fanon material is probably going to be your best bet, and even that's a crapshoot. Off the top of my head, you could try googling Franz Joseph's designs (Saladin, Hermes, Ptolemy, and Federation classes), as well as Star Fleet Battles, which uses Joseph's designs as well as a bunch of other fanmade designs of dubious quality (I think this may be the best visual guide for the SFB universe. The video game Star Trek: Legacy also had a bunch of TOS- and movie-era ships as well. Masao Okazaki's Starfleet Museum specializes in an alternate take on pre-TOS ships, but he's also contributed some TOS-era designs for the novels, like the Archer-class scout and the Watchtower-type starbase.

jeeves posted:

Akira pre-dates these, however both are terrible designs but Akira barely looks like any other ship in Starfleet due to the weird hull design.

It makes me wonder how much involvement Sternbach had with First Contact, as I know it was when John Eaves and his CGI kinda shitships gained prominance. Voyager looks amazing and a logical progression of Sternbach era way more than any First Contact ships looked, and I know Sternbach had heavy involvement with the beginning of that series.

Then JJ Abrams took all the "OMG KEWL" look of First Contact and later ships and applied them to the original series ships. It's been all downhill since then, and I blame the Akira.

I think the reason all the ship classes introduced in First Contact (the Akira, the Norway, the Saber, and the Steamrunner) all look so wildly different from any previous Federation designs was because the movie was introducing a new Enterprise with a completely different design, so there was probably a mandate from on high that every Federation ship had to be physically distinct from the Enterprise, even down to having a completely different silhouette, to avoid audience confusion. IIRC there are no Excelsior, Galaxy, or Intrepid class ships in any of the Sector 001 battle scenes, and the only ships from TNG/DS9 that show up are the Defiant and some Miranda and Nebula class ones.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


The Bloop posted:

Science? The Force?

I can see some sort of cutout or different material there too in the eye area
Kinda reminds me of those sentionaut helmets from Beyond the Black Rainbow, but it looks like there's some sort of grill in the front, so I suppose the actors can sorta make their way around the set without falling over everything. Then again, it's not true space opera if your costumes and makeup aren't specifically designed to torture your actors.

By the way, watch Beyond the Black Rainbow, everyone. It's rad as gently caress.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi7aQ-bKziY

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Baronjutter posted:

This one is odd because it's the only time I've ever seen turret like weapons in trek rather than just an "emitter" of some sort. These look like straight up WWII battleship turrets.
Yeah, the Bozeman was kind of a victim of budget and time. Apparently the script just identified it as "an older model of Federation ship," so the crew were tossing around designing a new class or even bringing in a TOS-vintage Constitution, but after they did the math for a model, bridge set, and uniforms, they just decided "screw it, slap some sensor pods on the Reliant model, it'll do." I suppose it was nice they were able to get Captain Fraiser and co. the nice turtlenecks.

By the way, I was just thinking about all the kitbashes they did for the Wolf 359 graveyard, and I wonder the Nebula class was the only one that got upgraded into a proper model and show up regularly in the show. Sure, most of those models were built with cannibalized model kits and markers, but I think things like the New Orleans class had the potential to look good with a little reworking.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Jeb! Repetition posted:

Was this woman on 30 Rock
Probably not. Memory Alpha, naturally, had an entry for her character (Ensign Tess Allenby). According to the article, she was played by an actress named Mary Kohnert, and the last thing IMDb has on record of her is her TNG appearances.

Ah, God bless the obsessive record-keeping nerds of this fandom.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Jeb! Repetition posted:

I thought the "cosmic string" was gonna have something to do with string theory since these beings have a different number of dimensions than us, but nope, it's a super fantasy black hole

Cosmic strings are one of those weird hypothetical phenomena that physicists like to come up with in their spare time. So far there's been no direct proof they actually exist, but then again for the longest time black holes were just theoretical objects too. I'm not sure Trek would've ever ventured into string theory; apparently it got big in the physics world in the 1980s and entered public consciousness in the late 1990s-2000s, and I kinda had the impression the guys behind TNG-era Trek were drawing more from ideas from the 1960s and 1970s, as well as their own made-up nonsense.

Edit: drat, beaten. Anyway, the idea of cosmic strings wasn't originally connected to string theory when it was formulated in the 1970s, but it was eventually incorporated in the intervening decades.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


So right now I'm looking at a dumb conversation on another site about coming up with a way to watch the entirety of Star Trek in chronological order, and I'm wondering if any of you guys ever played with a thought experiment like that. Right now I'm trying to figure out whether episodes that feature hallucinatory scenes in the past should be sorted chronologically or not (spoiler for Jeb)(do you watch all of "The Inner Light" during season 5 of TNG, or watch the Kamin parts once you hit c. 1368 AD?), and if averted future timelines should be watched at the end of the project or if they should be spun off into their own little appendix to be watched separately. I'm also wondering if such a super-mega-cut would even be comprehensible on any level.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Jeb! Repetition posted:

Shouldn't they have restrained Data at this point since he has enough tard strength to easily kill them

Ya know, Oscar Issac's tech mogul character in Ex Machina may have been nuttier than a pecan log, but even he knew that when you're building a gynoid harem, you don't give your gynoids enough strength to snap your neck with a backhand.

Marshal Radisic fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Aug 25, 2017

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Jeb! Repetition posted:

One of the bodies on the ship was killed by a phaser, which surprised me because I didn't think phasers could leave dead bodies behind.

You don't remember the time Riker shot that guy in the face in the first season and his head blew up like a Polish sausage in a microwave?

Nerd talk, there's something like sixteen power levels on TNG phasers. The first three are stuns of increasing intensity, the next four just burn people to death, and everything above that vaporizes them. I think at level 16 you can basically blow the side off a mountain, which is handy if you're lost in the wilderness and need to do some emergency fracking.

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Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


MillennialVulcan posted:

Imagine how many Klingons, Romulans, and Cardassians have been summarily executed by their captains for unwittingly falling victim to subspace anomolies, mindcontrol probes, or brainaltering chemically enduced backwards-evolutioning.
That's a really good point. The Star Trek universe is full of all this weird stuff, but we only every see how Starfleet crews react to it. We occasionally get little looks at how other species deal with stuff like this in episodes like in "Dramatis Personae" in DS9 and "Observer Effect" from Enterprise, but it's only ever glimpses. On top of that, do the other empires have to deal with the really weird big things our Federation heroes deal with on a yearly basis? Have the Klingons ever had to fend off a Borg cube? Has a Romulan commander ever had to find a way to kill a star-sized paramecium? Has a Cardassian gul ever had to stand as a representative of his species before an omnipotent energy being?

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